Religion in a Society with a long Life Expectancy

So one of the things I'm starting to develop features a constructed world where nearly everyone is capable of living for extremely long periods of time (most for up to 400-500 years, but technically they could go for even longer, save for 'accidents') thanks to Body Surfing. I've noted that in civilizations with longer life spans, religions are less 'fire and brimstone' and society's focuses are mire humanistic and secular. I've tried to keep this in mind while world building, and would appreciate any asistance with figuring out exactly out to do this. Things to keep in mimd about the society:

• Souls exist as semi-tangible things and are capable of existing outside a body for periods of time. Everyone knows Bout their existence
• Because they kind of have to worry about overpopulation, thanks to the fact that people can essentially live forever, many very effective contraceptives exist in this world (both magical and not) As a majority they are also pretty sex-positive
• Children (about 18 and under) are exept from the ability, because they would not have obtained enough magical strength/knowledge to perform the body swap in the case of death (plus I don"t want to deal with readers suffering from a serious case of Fridge Horror if they realized the possibilty that a 12 year old could be swapped into the body of a 32 year old and have sex) I think this would probably cause them to put a very high importance on the safety of children, maybe even coddling them.

So this is what I have so far for this, any ideas you have would be very appreciated :)

Interesting issue, some of cultures in my fantasy world have longer life spans due to high percentage of "elvish" blood (these are not conventional elves nor called elves, but they share appearance with more stereotypical elves and have longer lifespan than humans) and some of royals and high lords are nearly "elves" due to often interbreeding with the purebloods. Thus religion must be affected as well.

As for religion itself, it is henotheistic, with Mother of All, god of earth, and Lady of Tides, god of sea as major deities (one of minor deities, Skylord, is major deity in some other cultures), though the latter is slowly marginalized and in the future the religion may become fully monotheistic.

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I was thinking that there would be more agnostic 'idea' type religions. A majority of people believe that some sort of afterlife exists, but the specifics are up to interpretation.

The "Long Life" this is immaterial compared to the "Proof Souls Exist" and the "Body Hopping" thing.

Why would it matter if they lived 10 years or 10,000 years if they have assured access to an eternal afterlife?

There isn't that much focus on an afterlife in their society, most people don't expect to die for a couple hundred years. And when they do finally 'pass on' (most people usually think of it as entering a 'spirit world', but they aren't sure because of obvious reasons) it's usually because they got bored or had an accident that caused them to get Killed Off for Real.

• Even most of the organized religion ( which there isn't much of) doesn't focus too much on an afterlife, but focuses more on specific codes of conduct and such.

Plus ere isn't specifics of exactly ehatthe 'afterlife' some people believe it is essentially the Nothing After Death or a Cessation of Existence, others view it as a Mundane Afterlife, but people don't really worry about it. It's kind of like Buffy The Vampire Slayer, with the existence of 'spirits' and an Offstage Afterlife

edited 18th Jun '13 1:36:56 PM by TheMuse

I find it weird that a religion or population simply wouldn't worry or about death. Even if they have a much longer lifespan, mortal is mortal. What kind of story are you writing, because it would be hard to create dramatic tension when a character's life is threatened if they eventually stop caring if they live or die?

edited 18th Jun '13 5:51:14 PM by shiro_okami

Well the major confilct arises when somebody creates magic that can make someone 'mortal'. It slips into the hands of bad people get hold of it and start ususing it on mass quantities of people. Obviously, this creates a good amount of chaos

You mean more mortal. And you obviously missed the point of my statement.

Sorry that my response wasn't clear. But it's not like they entirely 'don't worry' about death. After a few centuries, Who Wants to Live Forever? usually gets to them and people essentially pull off a Seen-It-All Suicide, it's not treated as dreary as a real-world funeral and is a celebration of a fufilled life.

• (Before the whole world-shattering Anyone Can Die twist is developed) There are some ways to interupt one's Body Surf -ing abilites and kill them permenantly (usually used on criminals for excecutions) certain magical spells and poisons can cause this as well, but are extremely difficult to perform, therefor are very rarely used
• One can also end up in a situation where they die and either lack enough magical energy or do not have a suitable body close enough to transfer into and get Killed Off for Real. Situations like this aren't exactly common, but people do keep this in mind and occasionally worry about this.
  • The story begins with exposition of the setting as well as introduction of the characters, the main conflict is quickly introduced, the 'bad guys' have access to magic that can turn anyone 'more mortal' and kill someone permenantley. This is a big deal in-universe and shapes the rest of the plot.
• The story explores the themes involved with how the characters (and their society) is affect by the Body Swap -ing, as characters end up in situations where the physique, race (and occasionally sex) of their body is very different. I also want to make sure that their world (that is quickly shaken up) 'makes sense' according to the rest of it, y'know?

edited 18th Jun '13 6:44:54 PM by TheMuse

I am firmly in the Living Forever Is Awesome camp, so the Who Wants to Live Forever? concept is utterly incomprehensible to me. If you have a constant supply of new, healthy bodies, why stop?

Also, my question about Body Surfing was regarding exactly where are all these spare bodies coming from?

Well in this situation! Living Forever Is Awesome is true in a majority of cases (mostly because people can 'age' with you, your body will never give out on you and you can end it whenever you wanted) A few characters realize that they'll probably get bored after several centuries, plus the fact people need to 'die' occasionally becuase of the possibility of overpopulation and to ensure new, young bodies are 'created'

• And the way the body swapping works is: let's say you die in an accident or whatever. Statistically, someone relatively close to you (distance wise) has died as well. One's soul would enter the 'vacated' body, and the burst of magical energy of the soul would heal essentially what killed the previous occupant (it works for mild to moderately sever cases like blood loss or a broken neck. For things like decapitation and severe illnesses, not so much) If someone attempted (the soul is capable of making choices and concious at this point)to enter a hopelessly injured body like this and failed to heal it to life, they would be Killed Off for Real. If a character died in a state where their magical energy was severely weakened, they would be Killed Off for Real. A person who was particuarly skilled at magic could 'survive' with their soul outside a body for some time before taking a new one.

edited 18th Jun '13 8:21:35 PM by TheMuse

Would you then potentially end up swapping with the person who had inhabited your new body, leaving them in yours?

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Forgive me but this doesn't make that much sense. If you're going to have The Ageless you should probably have Immortal Procreation Clause to avoid overpopulation. Furthermore, mentally healthy organisms do not commit suicide just because they're "bored"; they might seek some kind of enlightened nirvana state in which they become detached from the world but they are not going to off themselves.

Because of the body-swap thing, they'd probably feel more in control of their fates and less dependent on the favor of deities. Reincarnation is a fact of nature and I think ghosthood might be a punishment for criminals. Ultimately, they'd look to religion for moral guidance (how to deal with people) and supernatural power if there is such a thing.

Level 3 Social Justice Necromancer. Chaotic Good.

This!

Also, the body swapping doesn't make sense either. If you can heal the injuries in your new body, why not the injuries in your old body? And if almost everyone is magical, would not every time somebody body-swapped into a new body the person who used to be in the new body be doing the same thing? And the whole system seems dependent on somebody else dying. Just doesn't make sense.

edited 19th Jun '13 2:50:18 PM by shiro_okami

Well basically you could your magic to heal your own injuries (to an extent) but once you're rendered 'dead' you cannot heal a body without entering it and one's soul's immediate reaction is to get the hell away from your previous body to avoid further injury. People who are particuarly masterful at magic can travel about in soul for some periods of time and can have some choice in the body they take, less skilled people are usually stuck with the closest person near them that dies, meaning that they sometimes end up with less desirable bodies, such as those that are older, sickly or are a sex that doesn't correspond weth their gender.

• I'm sorry that this is a little complicated, but I'm still developing from the initial concept and am well aware that it still needs A LOT of work. I plan on explaining this as thouroughly as I can in narrative to avoid Plot Holes and such.

I see no reason religion would be overly affected.

Even if eternal joy/punishment is further away, you'd still be worried about it if you believed it. If anything, people would probably think "Meh. We've got forever: Let's sin a LITTLE..."

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Yeah, that's what I was planning on doing. Plus the fact that because they know that SOME kind of afterlife exists, (a lot believe it may be a 'everyone gets in' type) most religions isn't too fire and brimstone in that regard.

But it would have some definite social ramifications, correct?

As cracked.com pointed out, time perception changes as you get older. To a child an hour is a long time, to a 60 year old, days fly by.

If your characters start out with a "normal lifespan" and then become The Ageless their viewpoints would change accordingly:

• Children's rituals would be simple and short, taking into account their attention span and they would emphasize things like the afterlife since they can't to the magical-life extension

• Adults would think nothing of "join a monastery for 20 years" even 50 years would be a vacation if you live to be 500 years old.

• jumping off the "let's sin a little", there would be people going on quests, joining the church as penance, only to leave for a "what happens in Red City stays in Red City" periods. The church might even cash in.

• Some people might take a body to atone for crimes, others would have rules (No women, no dead soldiers, only criminals for example).

• A priest or monk might take a body (or be stuck in a certain type of body) as part of their spiritual development. An old male priest becomes a woman, marries and has a child to better understand [INSERT CONCEPT HERE]. Or that's the monks backstory: mother, father, soldier, mayor, teacher and now monk.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

And I was also thinking that because there's no pressure to have to suddenly settle down, people 'mature' emotionaly at different speeds. One character is 50 years old (chronologically) but is stil quite naive.

• I like the last idea you had, it reminds me of a idea from Jainism that involves a woman having to be reincarnated as a man before reaching Nirvana, only your concept is less misogynistic and more interesting..
• I was wondering though, if it's common place for people to end up in bodies of the opposite sex, would it make sense for society to have a better idea of gender identity and refer to people by the pronoun of their gender, rather than the sex of the body they are currently occupying?
• Also, partially due to the fact that there's effective and widespread birth control and everyone (even the churches) is fine with it, and that anyone can end up in a female body, the society is quite progressive with gender equality. But would it be plausible for a few misogynists to still exist, believing that women are too sensitive or that inhabiting a female body dulls your skills?

edited 23rd Jun '13 10:11:39 AM by TheMuse

Yup, there would be those who only "live once" and view body swapping as theft. There will allways be misogyny and misandry. There will be those who see out the bodies of the opposite/same sex.

I could see a person still acting like they are their old "self" despite being in new body. And there would be those who embrace their new gender/race/etc.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

Well actually I was thinking that culture would not be difned the race of one's body, but by performing customs and styles of dress and such (kind of like how in earlier centuries one was considered part of that culture if they performed the customs) So there could be a situation where one's body is 'Black' but the person's culture is 'Vietnamese' or such. Most people still with the culture they were originally raised in, but if they end up in a new body where they are surrounded with a new culture, they often pick up traits that they continue to use.

• And speaking of the 'living once' and viewing the body swapping as theft, I was actually planning on including another magical race (kind of a fair folk/elf type thing) They can live for hundreds of years due to their slow aging and healing abilities, but are only able to take one body. There is some Fantastic Racism between the two peoples , it isn't the main conflict of the story, but is a reoccuring part of the narrative.

why is there no pressure to "settle down"? what do you mean by that?

how would you guess a female's masculine gender or a male's feminine gender? what about intersex people and gender-neuter souls?

Level 3 Social Justice Necromancer. Chaotic Good.

Regarding the whole gender-switch issue.....why is this even an issue?

In a world where body-swapping is normal, I would think that everyone would be born with both gender identities, and that which one was active would depend on the gender of their current body. Basically if a person was born male, their male gender identity and attraction to women would be dominant while their female gender identity and attraction to men would be suppressed. If they swapped into a female body, then their gender identity would "switch", and they would automatically start becoming attracted to men and suddenly get a more feminine personality.

Because really, gender-flipping being normal but without gender identity-flipping is a broken system and doesn't make sense. OTOH, if the body-swapping is not normal and goes against the intended nature of the world, that could raise some interesting questions and make the story more interesting.