G. K. Chesterton (Or, The Thread of the White Horse)

Not only that, but there's a great bit of irony that only becomes clear when you read the stories back to back and note the characters' trajectories. For example, "The Blue Cross" introduces two foils for Father Brown: a playful master thief, and a skeptical master detective. I was expecting the thief to become a recurring antagonist like Moriarty, and for the detective to become a Lestrade analogue. What happens instead is the detective becomes a murderer, then kills himself when his crime is discovered. And the thief, after two more clashes with F. Brown, gives up the life of crime and becomes a detective.

There's also the recurring central irony that a priest knows more about crime than a former criminal does.

Knows more about the horrors of the human soul, maybe?

Did he write the books that Ron Weasley's dad, Mark Williams, potters about in, as a priest solving crimes in a series shown on the BBC television channels? Because they're fairly good, though not up to Margaret Rutherford or Jean Hickson!Miss Marple standards to these eyes.

edited 19th Jul '14 8:46:30 PM by TamH70

^^ Pretty much. "Has it never struck you that a man who does next to nothing but hear men's real sins is not likely to be wholly unaware of human evil?"

^^ Yep. Mark Williams is starring as Father Brown in the BBC series from 2013. About half the plots are new stories written specifically for the series, though, and quite a few of the original stories won't be used because an executive decision was made to set all the episodes in the Cotswolds, and lots of the originals took place elsewhere in the world; some simply can't be transplanted to bucolic rural England and still work. Looking at the Wikipedia page episode listings, I'd say maybe half of the first ten were based on Chesterton's stories, and possibly four or five of the second series of fifteen were. I haven't seen it, so I don't know how well the new writers caught the spirit and feeling.

edited 20th Jul '14 9:15:40 AM by Madrugada

I think that's one of the reasons I buy it, tbh. people all on their own are amazing and horrifying. it's what i find compelling about Southern Gothic - and man, wouldn't Chesterton have loved Faulkner?

I was recommended Orthodoxy by a Christian acquaintance and got around to reading it eventually. I didn't buy its arguments, but Chesterton can admittedly turn an amusing phrase. Some of said arguments were pleasantly absurd, in my opinion. Thus a bit of a mixed bag for me. Not much of a surprise that his work reminds me of C. S. Lewis'.

edited 31st Oct '14 10:28:11 PM by Fireblood

One of the things I love best about Chesterton is much of an idealistic absurdist he is (and it's interesting to me how much more famous the atheists in his fanbase are than his fellow Christians). I like to imagine him as Ambrose Bierce's perversely upbeat counterpart - especially considering his relationship with George Bernard Shaw. :D

Have you read The Ball and the Cross? It's about two Scotsmen in London, one a naïve but well-educated Catholic and the other a cynical and equally well-educated atheist, who try to fight a duel over the existence of God and end up having to fight against everyone else because OMG who cares? Stop fighting about such a pointless question! And Satan comes in dreams to tempt each of them with a Cool Airship.

Yessssssss. :D

edited 2nd Nov '14 1:50:27 PM by Noaqiyeum

The Ball and the Cross really is amazing. And since it's not as famous as The Man Who Was Thursday, it hasn't been spoiled to hell and back. That ending genuinely did feel apocalyptic.

I didn't have Thursday spoiled for me, but after the revelation of Dr. Bull it is pretty obvious that everyone on the Council will turn out to be a policeman in disguise... or did you mean the Rule of Symbolism ending in its entirety?

I would love to see The Ball and the Cross adapted as a BBC miniseries. You could easily make every chapter its own episode, except maybe the first (due to having only a philosophical connection to the rest of the story until much, much later in the book), and it would be almost exactly the right length for two seasons. :)

The lampshading done on the ending is fantastically in-theme - that there are only so many places where everyone from your adventure gathers together at the same place again. A faerie tale, or the end of the world. It's both.

edited 2nd Nov '14 3:15:35 PM by Noaqiyeum

@Noaqiyeum: I think I'd find him even funnier if I didn't know he was serious, or how seriously people take what he wrote. I've only read Orthodoxy so far though.

edited 3rd Nov '14 5:24:25 AM by Fireblood

I had heard in very vague terms what the very end was like. It was the flock of wolves twist that got spoiled for me.

As for the first chapter of The Ball and the Cross seeming unconnected until the end, I really love stories like that. Hyperlink Story is one of my favorite tropes.

I was rather amused by the running gag of the characters leaping to wild conclusions on little evidence, then getting proven utterly wrong. "I'm flying an airship through dense clouds, and there’s a big round thing ahead. I must have DISCOVERED A NEW PLANET." "We traveled for a few hours in a dinky ship through an ocean storm, then ran aground. WE MUST HAVE REACHED AMERICA." And then for maximum irony, when the Fantastic finally does intrude, it wears a mundane mask and only shows its true face in dreams.

What's unintentionally funny is that Dr. Lucifer did gun/key duality decades before Problem Sleuth did.

edited 3rd Nov '14 11:04:21 AM by MetaFour

Oh, Chesterton most definitely takes his philosophy seriously. He also treats himself and his opinions by extension with the utmost flippancy (aka humility). Everything is comic and tragic all at once, especially concerning humanity. Both aspects are themselves philosophically critical. (Critical != serious.)

I didn't mean I disliked it (to the contrary!), just that it seems like it wouldn't be a great premier episode because it doesn't introduce the protagonists or the main plot. Especially when you can't immediately read the next chapter. "Is every episode going to be a bizarrely hilarious conversation between Mad Scientist Satan and Saint Cloudcuckoolander?" (Then, halfway into the second season - "Wait, who's this guy?")

(I love the opening image of the airship hanging in the sky above the stars... and then they ascend through the cloud layer and discover the strange new Earth.)

I didn't even think about comparing it to Problem Sleuth. XD It also involves an airship sailing through outer space, and a tower suspended from an upside-down world...

In that first chapter, I didn't pick up that the mad scientist was literally Satan. I thought he was a particularly uncharitable and unsubtle satire of contemporary philosophies. I did get the hint, however, by the time the Saint reentered the plot.

Well I certainly do appreciate someone having a sense of humor about things, including themselves. People are often entirely too serious. That was an appealing part of the book. Even when while not agreeing with his arguments, they often brought me a smile. That can't be said of many philosophers.

Chesterton is famous for pointing out that seriousness and solemnity are two utterly different things. A man can be totally serious, and at the same time be totally without solemnity—this is Chesterton most of the time. A man can be almost 100% solemn, and yet almost 100% unserious—for examples, take your pick of national politicians or media talking heads.

That's true, I remember him mentioning someone criticized him for that in Orthodoxy-he pointed out what you just said. I agree.

edited 5th Nov '14 10:13:08 PM by Fireblood

On the subject of wild-yet-accurate comparisons, I've just noticed that Funny.The Man Who Was Thursday compares Lucian Gregory to Invader Zim.

I do enjoy The Ball and the Cross a lot more than The Man Who Was Thursday - The Man Who Was Thursday was a little too on-the-nose for me, haha. also. um. that one book about the dude who went around the world to find that the only place he wanted to be was home