Fan Retcons to Warhammer40K

Honestly, considering Tyranids are capable of assimilating and developing from both Eldar and Human DNA. I think bringing Genetics into 40k is laughable at best.

>Goal of getting back to the organic bodies

That sounds like just the kind of cruel joke the Deceiver would play on the Necrons through the pretense, that there would ever be a chance of getting such bodies again.

Also, perhaps paradoxically, Necron Pariahs should still be a thing. They are the most fearsome infantry they can field, and an icon of the ghoulish Plan.

Malfunctions in Necron programming could cause them to be influenced or outright controlled by C'tan shards. I would also love to see the Pariahs brought back though the limit of blanks only should be removed.

edited 21st May '13 8:35:46 AM by ilniaj

I never understood why fans got so bent up over shape over genetics in 40K. Sure it's hardly realistic but what else isn't? It's not like 'gene stealing' bug creatures or half human space elves don't turn up elsewhere

edited 17th May '13 3:45:33 PM by joeyjojo

True. But I think it was more a response to the "Eldars have triple helix DNA so they shouldn't breed with humans"

You'd think so, but if you know anything about scifi...

(I would also say that on Aliens, the gene stealing part was only brought up in Alien 3 and AVP 2, and we don't talk about anything that isn't the original Alien or Aliens.)

edited 17th May '13 3:29:37 PM by Ghilz

It was in the production notes, so it was always cannon.

I fail to see what it has to do with firearms :-P

Plus Production Notes mean nothing. A lot of stuff is in production notes, or on alternate takes, or whatever. To paraphrase SF Debris, if you didn't put it in the movie, you don't get credit because, and follow me on this, you didn't put it in the movie. Scripts change, and evolve, as do production notes. And what's on them doesn't become canon till it's released. Casde and point, in original production notes, the Alien's blood wasn't acid.

I don't see how casde, (Centre for Aerospace Systems Design and Engineering) is relevant to the discussion.

Well ain't it obvious!

Another thing I say that some Imperial Guard regiments and SPESS MAHREEN chapters would go back to the use of sensible long-range engagement along with modern squad-based combat. They can't all be based in Korean War and prior tactical mindsets.

Also, the Tau Empire is the most likely place in the galaxy for friendly (and beyond!) Xeno-Human relationships.

Speaking of the Tau, their benefactors are either the Eldar, Malal, or the C'tan.

One of the Deathwatch book sort of rules out the third and supports the first, as a Necron Lord notes that the Tau resemble the work the old one's progenies but not that of the Old ones themselves. (Though note it's a specific character's observation, and he's notes that he needs to investigate further).

edited 17th May '13 9:17:03 PM by Ghilz

Here's some other ideas I came up with.

• Retcon the term "Chaos Space Marine" as a broad term that the Imperium uses to describe any Space Marine Chapter that is hostile to them, even when that specific chapter hates Chaos just as much as any other chapter. This means that there are space marines whose loyalties lies with groups other than the Imperium or Chaos. In most cases the term Chaos Space Marine is correct, about half of the traitor chapters serve Chaos, 40% view Chaos as a means to an end of some kind (more a tool than something to be worshiped), while the last 10 percent don't serve Chaos but split off from the Imperium for some reason, either willingly or unwillingly. For example:
  • A space Marine chapter that officially turned traitor after trying to destroy a Necron tomb world. The truth is that they were restrained by the Harbingers of Despair. The Necrons became flesh again by transferring their consciousness into the captured Astartes. Split from the Imperium unwillingly.
  • A space Marine Gue'vesa chapter. Split from the Imperium willingly.
  • A chapter that views the current Imperium as a perversion of the Emperor's vision. Split from the Imperium willingly.
  • Excommunicated either because they're geneseed mutated too much, the Ordos Xenos viewed them as as being friendly with Xenos to frequently, the chapter took a horrible or cowardly action to preserve their chapter. Split from the Imperium unwillingly.
• Taming tyranids. A very difficult process. Almost always done after step one is completed for a different reason than taming them. The process:
  • Step One. Cut off the tyranids from the Hive fleet. Always done by destroying the hive fleet or forcing it to retreat.
  • Step Two. Taming Tyranids must start from eggs that hatched after the hive fleet was destroyed. Tyranids that are cut off from the hive fleet after hatching will still obey it's last order to full effect. Those ones are impossible to tame.
  • Step Three. Cut out the organ that receives signals from the Hive Fleet. Not mandatory but it's a necessary precaution in case a new hive fleet arrives or the one that retreated comes back. No matter how well trained a Tyranid is it's training will still easily be overridden by a hive fleet.
  • Step Four. Train it. Can be done a variety of ways, and is very similar to training real life animals. Keep in mind that at birth they are still very aggresive.
  • Important Note. Trained tyranids can be used for a variety of means such as transportation, cargo moving, construction, tracking, guard or attack animal or even just kept as a pet, they are not sentient but are still intelligent enough to obey reasonably complex orders. Tyranids are always ready to hatch but usually don't until fully grown. Cutting it out of it's egg will cause it to stop growing and remain the same size it was when it was cut out. Thus depending on the intentions they can be full sized Carnifexes or about the size of a common house cat.

edited 18th May '13 11:51:31 PM by ilniaj

Pretty sure that 'Nids don't come from eggs.

Speaking of them, I say that Chaos gets a hella lot of monsters by corrupting stray members of the swarm.

That's not a retcon; that's canon. One of, I think, either the Iron Warriors or Word Bearers books has the Chaos Marines using an ex-Tyranid bio-vessel as a dropship.

Huh. Never heard of that.

A lot of people seem to want the empire to not be quite as mind numbingly uncompromising and inflexible especially regarding their xenophobia. Cannon seems to moving towards this as well with the alliance matrix.

Fans complain of course. But it's reasonable they'll prioritise which aliens are worth genociding and which aren't in times of war.

edited 18th May '13 8:33:57 PM by joeyjojo

Angel Exterminatus didn't happen. The entire book was a foregone conclusion (every Iron Warrior appeared in Storm of Iron so they had to survive, Fulgrim's still a Villain Sue, Perturabo's... something, and the Vohra brothers' plot was either a Batman Gambit or a Paranoia Gambit, I couldn't tell). Fulgrim's ascension needs to have a sacrifice like his brothers went through, otherwise it cheapens daemonic apotheosis.

Isn't "Fulgrim" gone (or in a painting) and his body possessed by a daemon?

He clawed his way back sometime around The Primarchs.

As for Angel Exterminatus, I enjoyed it. Some of the plot points were dodgy, but it was interesting watching the Iron Warriors interacting with their far more corrupted brethren.

...of course, as a diehard Iron Warriors fanboy, my opinion may be just a little bit biased on this point.

It also shows how horrifically far gone Fulgrim is from the decent, fairly sensitive man he was pre-Heresy.

Given how dead the main 40k thread has been until recently, I'm surprised this topic wasn't raised there. But anyway:

The "Khornate Knights" incident of course never happened, and the Grey Knights' teamkilling gets toned down a few notches. Most people who survive a daemonic invasion and pass the purity tests afterward are allowed to live without brain scrubbing - in these situations, the Grey Knights' existence is good for morale, proof that the Emperor's finest can always triumph over evil. The Grey Knights are never presented as anything other than a normal Space Marine chapter, to enhance the mythology surrounding the Angels of Death. Only certain organizations, such as the Adepta Sororitas, are trusted with the full truth of the Grey Knights' mission, and have a long and proud history of fighting alongside the daemonhunters. The Grey Knights' existence is not a state secret in itself (but the location of their bases are). Neither is the existence of the Daemonic, because why would the Ecclesiarchy go on and on about the righteous triumphing over Chaos if it didn't exist?

The betrayal of Armageddon after Angron's invasion was due to Administratum concerns over the number of potential cultists hiding within the planetary population to sabotage production and sow the seeds for the next invasion, so instead of spending years going through every hab-block with a team of Inquisitors and setting production far behind schedule, they just shipped everyone off-world into work camps where they couldn't cause as much trouble and imported new workers. Callous, but the Imperium needs tank shells and lasguns.

Alternatively, it was an attempt to bury the truth about Chaos Space Marines, but due to the Space Wolves' actions the High Lords have decided such a policy shouldn't be repeated.

Depends how the Ethereals feel about miscegenation. The whole genetically-divergent caste system may mean they frown upon relationships outside of certain boundaries. I mean, what caste would you stick an Earth-Fire hybrid in? Or a hypothetical half-tau, half-human?

Xenology posits that Tyranids are all evolutions of the humble ripper, which makes sense if you look at the models, but comes from the same work with the infamously toed tau.

And in one of the 'nid codices it mentions a swarm of gribblies that popped up thousands of years before Behemoth arrived in the galaxy, speculated to be a Hive Fleet that took a detour through the Warp. The whole Shadow of the Warp deal would make sorcery difficult, but other than that there shouldn't be anything about Tyranids that make them especially resistant to Chaos.

Hmm, what sort of trouble could a daemonically-possessed Hive Tyrant get up to? Or a Norn Queen?

Awesome stuff, that's what.

I could see Gaunts or other non Synapse being posssessed when alone and isolated from the Hive Mind, but I wouldn't seen a Tyrant or a Norn Queen being possessed. They are essentially linked to the Hive Mind directly via their status as Synapses (And high ranking ones at that). So closely linked that the Hive Mind can transfer their minds to new bodies. I dont see a single demon wresting control of such beings away from the Hive Mind itself.

Even for the Gaunts being possessed, there's so many factors. Non Synapse 'nids don't tend to be psykers, which makes possessing them harder since they are not as opened to the warp.

Then of course there's the matters of if 'nids are even connected to the Warp. Their Psykers draw on the Hive Mind itself for powers (which is why you don't see 'Nids trigger the perils of the warp on a bad day) unlike normal psykers. similarly, they don't use the warp for FTL, but Gravity corridors of folded space.

Plus for a Daemon, a Tyranid is sort of a shitty host. It doesn't care for pleasure, it doesn't even care about killing, as it only exists to let the hive consume. They resist disease, and don't really embody decay as they go through a constant cycle of renewal. They exhibit none of the traits that daemons and the chaos gods are attracted to. I guess Khorne might like their ability to cause carnage, but that can be said just as much of the Orks. And the Orks are into Carnage for Carnage's sake. The 'nids only search to crush what can threaten the consumption of a world.

Few questions about the process:

1. Only the Norn Queens and Hive Ships can produce new 'nids, so first of all, you are operating on a limited supply there if you killed them to break contact with the hive mind.
2. 'Nids don't have digestive system, and don't breed. How do you train them "like animals" if its impossible tor reward them for completing a task?

edited 19th May '13 10:53:59 PM by Ghilz

Don't 'Nids get angry, though? And doesn't Chaos possess animals?

It can certainly change them - WHFB has had Chaos-tainted warhounds for absolutely ages.