Trying to do research on voodoo, anybody know anything interesting.

Essentially, I'm trying to do a story where the hero is forced to deal with (shadow spirit things, I don't really know yet what they are) and has to learn magic to fight them.

More specifically, I'm looking for interesting intersections between Voodoo and christian mysticism.

I assume you want to avoid Hollywood Voodoo, which makes me happy 'cause I'm a vodouisant myself.

Are you going for Louisiana voodoo or Haitian vodou? Either way, it's basically a blend of African religion with Catholicism and scraps of Amerindian lore. Voodoo has more hoodoo influences while vodou has more masonic influences.

The Haitian Vodou would be better for the flavor. I've always hated that there isn't really a counterpoint to things like Wicca always being portrayed as evil. In fact, the evil in my universe comes closer to Jewish mysticism through the lens of hermetic magic and some lovecraftian themes.

Really, over seven books, I've got quite a bit of history to draw from.

I'd love to know how you think things like wards and offensive abilities would play out as used by a practitioner of Vodou.

edited 15th May '13 4:28:51 PM by GlassPistol

I've made a point to visit a fetish market if I'm ever in that part of Africa. Sounds like you're looking for more Western-hemisphere voodoo, though.

I've heard there's been some controversy over animal sacrifice in the states. Admittedly it's hard to not be horrified by pictures of mutilated animals, even though animal sacrifice was practiced by the Israelites in the Bible.

Honestly, I think the image I had in my mind was closer to shamanism... but I can't tell since research into the subject keeps turning up the examples that I am specifically rejecting.

My admittedly limited understanding of Voodoo is that it prominently features divine possession of the worshiper by the Gods. If magic is real, then I assume it would include the possessed worshiper acquiring some of the powers associated with that God.

Possession/channeling for vodoun actually seems to work more like an ecstatic trance (possibly drug-induced, because a lot of the loa seem to enjoy alcohol). It's very shamanistic in practice, if not in theory.

Vodoun specific terms for possession are that a "horse" (the possessed) gets "mounted/ridden" by the loa.

If you need general shamanistic advice, then I can help.

edited 15th May '13 9:59:02 PM by Sharysa

For the purposes of the OP, we have to convert these real life practices into a fictional setting, in a manner compatible with the OP's use of magic. He specifically asked about wards and offensive abilities.

So- given what you know about IRL Voodoo, how would that work?

Quite a few of the loa are summoned with caution because they already died, so they do not fear death or injury. The loa that are actually stated to be reckless (especially the Ghede clan) will do VERY hazardous things after mounting their horse, like rubbing chili onto sensitive areas, eating glass, and similar. That definitely translates to invulnerability, at least during possession.

There's also a part of the ritual where after the loa is summoned and their identity confirmed, the horse is given the loa's trademark clothing and accessories. There's definitely room in fiction for giving trademark weapons if the loa is known to be a fighter, like the Petro clan. The Petros are the most aggressive and warlike loa, so they'd probably be the best in fiction for actual fighting.

And then a few of the loa are outright feared because of their violent tendencies, both to others and their own horse. You don't want to summon those lightly, so their fictional counterparts would be the best for a last resort.

edited 16th May '13 10:39:04 AM by Sharysa

Vodou is theurgy and Eye of Newt. Most wangas (spells) are remedies for problems, whether physical or metaphysical, but there are curses. I would advise against vulgar displays of magic such as fireballs and magic missiles; I would play up the Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane angle as much as possible.

A layperson can venerate the spirits but a houngan or mambo is trained to serve them properly (aka safely, because the spirits can be temperamental). A houngan/mambo may have a mon-type relationship with a spirit but a bokor could have made a Deal with the Devil. Zombies do not eat brains. Animals are not sacrificed cruelly and their remains are eaten - the spirits need the blood and people may need food.

Vodou is extremely secretive because it has been suppressed pretty much the whole of its history. There are secret handshakes and signals; it's a mystery religion wherein you learn more as you progress.

edited 16th May '13 10:47:46 AM by nekomoon14

Forgot about the difference between layman's worship and trained, sorry. I more often run into New Orleans practitioners, so things get blurry.

Louisianan/New Orleans Voodoo is a lot more focused on sympathetic magic, charms/amulets (usually called gris-gris) and ancestor-worship than Haitian. They're also very emphatic on luck, and how to gain or control it.

Also, at least in Louisiana: True voodoo practitioners don't charge money. They might have you acquire things and participate in a ritual yourself, but they will make sure it's something you can afford to do. Actually charging you in the "give me [X] amount of money for X" is a scam.

edited 16th May '13 9:38:03 PM by Sharysa

I'm trying not to write a treatise on vodou when all you wanted was info you could use in your story. Can you give a short synopsis of the story, so I know where you're trying to go? There's so much information that it can be a little overwhelming.

Well, a lot of the details are a little iffy, since I haven't even gotten to the supernatural bits yet in the first draft, but here's what I have so far (loosely)

A woman moves away from home to live with two lovers in Seattle, away from a fundamentalist christian home. She has been changed by a dreamwalking member of my universe's premier cult to be able to see shadow creatures that eventuall begin to attack her once they realize she can see them. She needs to turn to her dwindling faith for a way to fight back, aided by a practitioner of what I'm asking about, culminating in her using Christian wards as weapons against the creatures.

I'm at a point where I'd be very receptive to feedback.

God is omnipotent but uninvolved while the lwa are active but limited. Some lwa were created by God to govern nature; others were human spirits that evolved to influence society. The lwa are divided into (at least) three nanchons ("nations" in Kreyol): the cool rada lwa, the hot petwo lwa, and the crazy ghede lwa. The saints are seen either as manifestations of or disguises worn by the lwa; they are more human even than the greek gods, being fallible.

(Sidenote: the rada were venerated in Africa while the Petwo and Ghede were practically born in Haiti, most of them during the revolutions.)

Can someone provide a RL example of a way to protect yourself from hostile spirits?

Anyone can pray for protection but actual vodou rituals (especially those meant to induce possession) are secrets reserved for initiates. If you want more superstitious wards and the like, look to voodoo - hoodoo is primarily concerned with luck as sharysa said before. Like, if you sweep someone's feet with a broom they will have bad luck - that's a kind of curse, especially if you do it on purpose.

edited 19th May '13 5:10:26 PM by nekomoon14

Hi everyone, I'm trying to make a Voodoo Support Champion on League of Legends. I don't know much about Voodoo. Can anyone help me? I need help on the following questions:

The lore is that the original Erzulie, was a normal woman who accomplished many feats and had a Helen/Paris of Troy relationship with Baron Saturday until he was murdered and/or had their child killed. At her death she became some sort of intermediary between the worlds and is the origin of Erzulie Freda.

1) What is the difference between the cool Rada lwa, the hot Petwo lwa, and the Crazy ghede lwa?

2) What is the best way to describe the personality of the following lwa: Erzulie Freda, Baron Saturday, Erzulie Dantor and Legba? Is there any interesting Ghede lwa that I could use in-game?

3) Alright. No voodoo dolls. But are Haitian zombies ok? What are the characteristics of a haitian zombie? Can i implement sympathetic magic in any kind of way or is it completely foreign to voodoo?

4) I want to create a gameplay kit where spirits can be both beneficial and detrimental. Therefore, who is most likely to give a shield? (and what kind of shield?) Who is most likely to give a blessing/buff and what kind of buff? Who is most likely to give a curse? and what kind of curse? Who is most likely to punch people?

5) Is it ok to mention the Christian references or is it an awful idea which would lead to huge controversy? Is there any other pitfalls that I should be aware of? Apart from Haitian Voodoo's very tolerant view of LGBT?

6) Can you suggest the appearance or Erzulie and Baron Saturday? Wikipedia has a lot of stuff but I want to hear how you would imagine her.

Thanks is advance and sorry if I come as ignorant.

I've never heard Baron Samedi actually called Baron Saturday. Not saying you're wrong, just noting that practitioners don't usually translate the name.

The Ghedes are noted to be the outcasts and the wild ones among the loa—they don't fit in with the other clans.

Sympathetic magic is VERY much used in Vodun, and I mentioned it in one of my posts.

Christian syncretism is a little fuzzy with me, but to my knowledge Bondye (the god that the loa act for) is essentially the Christian God to those that have strong Christian roots.

First thing first, there is nothing wrong with being ignorant as it simply means you lack knowledge or understanding; stupidity, on the other hand, is when you CHOOSE to remain ignorant.

The Rada lwa tend to be slow-acting, long-thinking, and gentler, while the Petwo are characterized as being quick-acting, short-thinking, and harsher. The Rada came from Africa with the transported slaves but were too “above it all” to be of much use when the slave revolts and other conflicts happened, so the Haitians called on the Petwo, who helped them through the bad times. The Petwo have been called on many times in Haiti’s history; they reflect dangerous times. The Ghede are the dead and the rulers of the dead; they are quick-acting like the Petwo but long-thinking like the Rada and as harsh as they are gentle, having transcended the foolishness that living causes – they like to cuss and say nasty things. Some lwa have personalities that are Rada and others that are Petwo and others that are Ghede, while others only have one “type” of personality. Basically, the lwa are personality-shifters.

Erzulie Freda is romantic and seductive, graceful and charming, but she also has a terrible temper and hates feeling like she isn’t getting the attention and respect she deserves. She is often a white or light-skinned black woman. Erzulie Danto is either her Petwo sister or her Petwo personality, a dark-skinned woman with scars on her face; while Freda is the “goddess” of beauty and romance, Danto is the divine consciousness of survival and defiance – she is the patron of single mothers and lesbians, usually dressed in overalls. Bawon Samedi is the lord of the Ghede and exemplifies that nachons vulgar humor and love of fun; he wears a pair of glasses with a missing lens, which signifies his ability to see in the worlds of the living and the dead – he is associated with Papa Legba to such an extent that many consider him to be the Ghede personality of that lwa. Bawon Samedi’s wife is Maman Brigitte, who is the Haitian Vodou manifestation of Saint Brigid, who was the Irish goddess of a crapload of useful things; as such, Maman Brigitte is a white woman.

Actually, poppet magic IS part of Haitian Vodou, but it is used for healing rather than killing; this is a survival of African fetish magic. Haitian Vodou zombies are nothing like Hollywood zombies; they are created to serve their creators, not eat people. The bokor paralyzes the victim, who experiences his or her own funeral and comes to believe they are dead, only to be revived by the sorcerer. Of course, there’s a thin line between tricking someone and actually working magic.

Many vodouisants are practicing Catholics; they don’t see Vodou as sinful because they simply consider Catholic ministers to be short-sighted, so they (the purist Catholics) can’t see the connections between different religions. Some Catholic saints are seen as stand-ins for the lwa and others are seen as lwa in their own right; Maman Brigitte is one of the latter.

Now, there is a connection between Haitian Vodou and Louisiana Voodoo and hoodoo. So, in the US, Bawon Samedi IS actually called Baron Saturday. Hoodoo and Louisiana Voodoo have more European and Native American influences and fewer African ones than Haitian Vodou.

Huh. I didnt know that about Saint Brigit. Interesting.

Some houngans, mambos, and bokors (Vodou priests and priestesses) will steal communion wafers and holy water from Catholic churches because they've observed that Catholic priests are especially adept at blessing these things. This is especially common in American voodoo. Hoodoo has more of a Protestant influence, which is why the saints aren't usually factored into it. Hoodoo is pure folk magic, while Voodoo and Vodou are religions that make use of folk magic.

edited 3rd May '15 10:18:10 PM by nekomoon14

Wrong thread, sorry

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 24th 2019 at 7:32:55 AM