Superman General

The sad thing is, this pretty accurately sums up DC's damage control strategy whenever their premier capes drop in popularity. Superman in particular has had a number of stories - like Kingdom Come, What's so funny... and Grounded, where anyone not dropping in worship before him is browbeaten - or just beaten - into submission. Tragic that they can't do that to their actual dwindling fanbase, in'it?

As for me, perhaps I simply haven't developed the "not muh Superman" filter that's evidently the actual basis of the guy's remaining shreds of popularity. Sure, discount every story where he doesn't act like you believe he "really" would, and it's easy to remain supportive... until such heresies make it to the big screen. Me, I see Superman being an asshole, I call it Superman being an asshole, and unless half the writing staff is terminated with extreme prejudice ^note  in the original sense of the term, I can expect Superman to continue being an asshole for the foreseeable future. Wouldn't be that much of a problem either if he wasn't the second most crossover-prone character after Batman. Right about now, it might be a good marketing strategy for Suicide Squad, Harley Quinn and Deathstroke books to be labeled as not featuring unsolicited guest appearances by the spandex brigade.

edited 9th Dec '17 1:25:09 AM by indiana404

I mean, you say "dwindling", but with Rebirth, DC's more popular than it's been in a long time and they're frequently obliterating Marvel in sales. And one of the most popular acts of Rebirth is Superdad and his Superson. I think you're just objectively wrong and you're using the fact that you don't like a character to create an alternate reality that justifies your dislike.

My various fanfics.

Unlike other medias, we can discount certain parts of a character simply due to the fact that there are many writers, making it impossible for them to be consistent.

In a way, yes, but like I said, the problem with this becomes evident when a prominent adaptation disagrees on which parts it opts to build on.

Not according to actual reports - per Comichron, the only DC character to consistently feature in the top ten is Batman, and this has been the case for years.

And that's not mentioning their film record - as much as I can argue against the grain for the quality of the DCEU films, fact of the matter is, their viewership isn't exactly stellar. And, fittingly enough, Batman's portrayal was praised, Wonder Woman's popularity as a whole skyrocketed, freakin' Aquaman became a fan favorite as early as the JL trailers came out, all while Superman was divisive at best, never mind being actively discounted by the most zealous trufans.

That's the kind of problem at hand here, and it's only now that WB got hit hard enough in the checkbook to bother trying to fix. They ignored just how much of the character's portrayal is overlooked by the readerbase, so when they gave similar free reign for writers to go wild on the big screen... mistakes were made. All in all, it might be prudent to enforce some actual consistency, and in particular weed out the moral myopia brought upon by fans turned writers too invested into the character to notice the resulting flaws. Right about now, Superman: Deadbeat Dad seems almost decent in comparison.

edited 9th Dec '17 2:17:14 AM by indiana404

Well we aren't talking about their movies, were talking bout comics.

This topic is fucking annoying thats for sure.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Edited post.

edited 9th Dec '17 6:50:32 AM by windleopard

Supermans point about being a hypocrite to lex was what he said because he cant say "you drug my wife and kids with me to hellworld"

"Sure, discount every story where he doesn't act like you believe he "really" would, and it's easy to remain supportive..."

Doesn't this apply to every long running superhero? They've each had a Dork Age or two. It's hardly just Superman.

edited 9th Dec '17 2:31:38 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

Its not even about him being in a dork age not he is in one since Superdad is fucking awesome.

He's just a little bit mean to Lex & apparently that totally ruins him as a character.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Just pointing out that "you have to ignore half the comic history of a comic book character" applies to basically all of the ones that have recognisable names.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

That's true, but not every superhero is touted as the be-all, end-all of proper superheroics. Rather than the editorial staff enforcing some standards about how certain high-profile characters are to be written, more often than not you get an all but tautological attitude, where everything they do is great because it's them doing it. The treatment of Luthor is nothing compared to such gems as Grounded, where Superman nobly sent a pre-teen kid to threaten a bunch of drug-dealers, or the recent Mr. Oz arc where he takes time to lecture a disgruntled laid-off employee of "the blackness smothering his soul"... Mind you, I'm totally using this the next time a millennial complains about unemployment. All in all, the most ostensibly noble of characters tend to suffer from the moral myopia of their writers... who in turn wonder why their beloved capes aren't considered "relevant" or "relatable" anymore.

No, sorry, hold on. Ar you forgetting the part where the guy Superman was talking to had just tried to murder a bunch of innocent people because "They took his job" or whatever? How is that not the focus of Superman's criticism of him and not the fact that he was a poor, down-on-his-luck laid off middle class American?

Fuck off.

My various fanfics.

No excuse for murder as they.

That fuckwit deserves no sympathy.

Supes should have torn him down further if he had the time.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

That applies to cowls as well - after all, it wasn't the capes who caused The Dark Age Of Comic Books.

Characters like Batman, Wolverine and the Punisher are just as capable of being smug self righteous pricks as Superman; instead of sneering at anyone who doesn't hold themselves to their standard they sneer at those who don't sink to their level.

edited 9th Dec '17 3:27:10 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

Or Iron Man. Remember Civil War? {shudder}

Thing is, Superman was nowhere near as overbearing regarding every other person affected by what was pretty much a hate plague. No, the writers and by extension the character paid special attention to one currently fashionable political strawman, venting their frustrations rather than considering how the whole thing looks coming from a character with an ivory fortress villa.

From my experience, anti-heroes aren't exactly advertised as pristine paragons of virtue. Some of them tend to have the whole cynical pragmatism theme going for them, which can get smug, but their writers aren't really in the habit of capesplaining how everyone should be more like them.

I don't see the problem. Those people are assholes & deserve to be told off.

Supes isn't unqualified just cause of the Fortress & shit. He's still a working class man.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

"anti-heroes aren't exactly advertised as pristine paragons of virtue"

When anti-heroes are done wrong they're actually worse, they're paragons of "the situation required it". Whatever screwed up thing the writer can decide for them to do because they're doing it to a drug dealer or a pimp or whatever. The Cape gone wrong might moralise and give smug hypocritical speeches. The Cowl gone wrong will do exactly the same thing but add in some gruesome torture. If anything, their Omniscient Morality Licence is much more flexible since they usually don't have some sort of code keeping them in check, just a desire for revenge.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

There's that, indeed. However, the case nowadays is that even capes are just as punch-happy, so long as it technically doesn't violate their code. Harassment, assault, High-Altitude Interrogation - all fair game for the modern moralist. But snap a guy's neck when he's about to fry a whole family - suddenly everyone loses their minds. That's the kind of lopsided standards we're dealing with here.

It wasn't that it was immoral in the situation it was that it was an inappropriate note to have in a Superman film.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

It was also not done well in general.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

That's the thing - the aforementioned advertising gimmicks, where Superman could do no wrong and was an absolute example to follow in every situation, eventually leaked out into the comics and was presented pretty much at face value, disregardng any opposing view.

And then it hit the films... only the films dropped the kiddie gloves and actually presented a challenge, not so much to Superman's heroism, but to how his brand of heroism is propped by external circumstances as often as by his own efforts. Having to admit something like this would be inappropriate for a Superman film would mean having to admit that as well, and that's not something most writers are brave enough to do. Pretty much the only one I know to ever do it is Garth Ennis, of all people. Remember that Superman? The one who would pray for the soul of a killer? The one who alone in the entire Justice League, refused to judge on the use of lethal force by those less powerful than himself? I miss that guy.

edited 9th Dec '17 4:09:52 PM by indiana404

Yeah, and occassionally his comics are written really badly. I miss the Wolverine who couldn't survive a nuke. That happens to literally every major comic book character.

edited 9th Dec '17 4:19:32 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

Hell, I miss the Wolverine who could be beaten up by a gang of cyborgs and left to rot in the sun for days after being literally crucified. And then spending weeks waiting for his healing factor to fully recover. And yes, that all actually happened. God, those were the days...

Even though I wasn't around when it happened I miss the days when Cyclops wasn't called hitler & was generally respected.

Man does DC have it good now.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."