removing 'this troper' from sugar wiki and nightmare fuel.

I am starting this project due to the abundance of 'this troper' and meta examples that I have found while browsing the heartwarming, funny, awesome, tear jerker and nightmare fuel examples of the wiki. These look ugly and are basically just tropers trying to make up for the fact that troper tales is gone. I try to remove them whenever I see them but to be honest I am not a very active editor and this is a task for more than one person. I feel that if we tropers band together and remove these examples, as well as discussions and word cruft, we can turn these leftover pages from the troper tales days into what they are truly meant to be; upstanding examples of how to properly show highly subjective tropes.

What we first need is a plan of attack, and some ground rules.

Rule # 1: We are not here to tell people what is funny or not funny, what is heartwarming or not and so on and so fourth, no matter how dumb it is, how ever we may have to deal with the fridge horror and fridge heartwarming later on and see weather they should be removed or not.

Rule # 2: People will sometimes get tear jerker and heartwarming confused, remeber if it makes you cry tears of joy, it is heartwarming, if it makes you cry tears of sad it is tear jerker. Move any confused examples to their proper home.

As for our plan of attack, I suggest working our way down the list on heartwarming first, as it seems to have the most 'this troper' and meta examples. I suggest we go alphabetically, starting with anime and manga and go down the list. I do not know the first thing about any of those pieces of media so people who are knowledgeable about what is tear jerking, heart warming and just plain fridge stuff should think of joining up and helping out!

Ok now that that is out of the way, any questions?

(please, if you believe something can be added or improved to this, or you just don't understand what I am saying, ask here or PM me, this is my first big project so I may need a little help.)

For the record, the search terms for use in the Google Site Search to find these two terms are https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki "this troper" and https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel "this troper".

edited 27th Mar '13 5:34:50 AM by SeptimusHeap

@ Lunarcat: I think this is a very good idea. I'll try to help out the best I can.

Very definitely a long-term project - it took me weeks just to purge "this troper" (and "I" and "me" - do remember that not all personal references are in the third person on those pages) and meta-examples from the Awesome Music pages, and there are only a few hundred of those, compared to thousands for Awesome, Funny, and Heartwarming Moments and Nightmare Fuel. However, it's also an outstanding idea as those are the parts of the wiki that seem to attract those problems most of all. I try to purge that sort of thing when I find it, but I've never made a concerted sweep for it.

And it's definitely a multi-person job. I may not be able to do much until May or so, but I'll lend a hand as and where I can. If I may make a suggestion, those pages are also magnets for the OTT Thread Mode "Hey, why isn't THIS moment here yet!? You all SUCK for forgetting it!" type language; this sort of mass sweep would be a good opportunity to look out for that as well, time permitting.

Another thing to keep an eye out for/clean up are links to other moments pages; a lot of the pages link to each other, and usually they use the old names. Those should be updated to the correct names and namespaces.

That said, this is a great idea, and one that has been sitting in my to-do list for a while now, waiting for me to finish up other things to get to it.

Great! And there is not rush on this project, so if 'the real world' or sny other projects get in the way, feel free to take a break.

That being said, I'm going to go and scope out the pages that need the most help and put them up as our 'Emergency pages' I have a feeling that the skyrim page is one of them, people just seem to love sticking their own personal stories onto those pages.

And just for a little bit of funny, I once saw a 'you had to be there' troper tale on the wreck-it Ralph page. Take that how you will.

Alright first emergency page I'v found is: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/Batman. We have lots of conversation in the main page going on, one example of 'I'm' and some examples that could probably be shortened. Who wants this guy?

The second page that needs clean up is https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/BuffyTheVampireSlayer, so much 'I' and 'this troper' it's bad, but not terrible. there are also references to the old crowning moments pages.

edited 27th Mar '13 11:39:26 AM by Lunarcat

Quick question, what are our thoughts on pages with only one example, and examples with no context? Because I've found some of those.

If there's only a few examples, it should go on the work's YMMV page, and on the Crowning Moment pages be put in the appropriate media category on the main Crowning page instead of off on its own work subpage.

As for no context, regardless of where on the wiki, Zero Context Examples are prohibited. Comment them out (using "%%" ), and leave a comment at the top of the page about it. See this thread for details.

edited 27th Mar '13 11:39:27 AM by Nohbody

alright, I can do that.

For the works subpages that get emptied, you may need to just redirect it to the main Crowning Moment page (or its specific media subpage, if present) if there are sufficient inbound links (see the "Related to..." button for that count), as pages with more than 10 (IIRC) inbounds will generally not be cutlisted even if they no longer have any actual content.

edited 27th Mar '13 11:45:21 AM by Nohbody

Actually, official word from on high is that all moments should be on their subpage, even if there's only one or two. (I asked about this a while ago, and was told that by at least Fighteer and I think a couple other mods agreed.) So examples should not be moved onto YMMV pages and the main moments pages; they should be left on the subpages.

edited 27th Mar '13 12:11:15 PM by Nocturna

That does explain why one of the latest scripts programmed into FELH2, everyone's favourite cleanup bot, has created a few Awesome Music pages with single entries... in some cases, Zero Context Examples just saying "The entire soundtrack". (Unfortunately, as I am unfamiliar with the works in question, I can't expand them... and on a related note, Zero Context Examples are also rampant on the Moments pages, but that's another cleanup project in itself.)

^^ I wasn't aware of that (or forgot that I read it).

^ "The whole thing" is bad troping anyway, and should be burned to the ground (drive platters? ). Ultimately it's just another flavor of Zero Context Example.

edited 27th Mar '13 5:04:47 PM by Nohbody

When we are on this topic and when it's fresh: Tear Jerker on Live-Action TV has a lots of sorted examples, nicely organized in sub-pages, in folders for individual shows and alphabetized, and they are anxiously waiting to be moved to works' sub-pages and indexed.

However, it's going to be a long run, since you cannot simply copy them in most cases. The works' pages have a lot of those moments listed already, especially if it's a popular show or a show currently going on. There is a big chance that there would be the exact moment listed twice but worded differently. It's hard to find it with ctrl + f, so the only way to do is read it and try to sort it out. IMO, it's a job for fans of the specific show, otherwise it can get tedious very quickly.

Also some pages try to organize examples by seasons and episodes, and it's hard to do so with the example you want to move if you happen to be only slightly familiar with the show.

I guess other media and other audience reaction pages are in a similar situation. It just happens that yesterday I was focusing on Tear Jerker and Live-Action TV.

edited 3rd Apr '13 11:25:38 AM by XFllo

Hm... there are a few other Awesome Music pages which are just a single Zero Context Example as well, not just the new ones FELH2's latest script has created. If they're actual references to songs, perhaps they should just be commented out, but if they're just "the entire soundtrack", should I just zap them?

Anyway, back on the subject of this thread, oh yes, Tear Jerker... another huge magnet for "this troper" and meta-examples (especially if the tears are because Moment X reminded Troper X of Sad Event X in his/her Life X... er, his/her life; although that sort of purge would need to be framed in a way that doesn't appear to trivialise Sad Event X). Which I think rounds out the set: Awesome, Funny, Heartwarming, Nightmare Fuel, and Tear Jerkers all need a massive polish.

edited 27th Mar '13 7:33:05 PM by mlsmithca

Yes, in my original post I forgot to mention tear jerker.

I would like to pose the question of how we should split up the work load? As this is my first long term project I would love input on how to make this easier for everyone, should we do teams, or are we freelancing the work?

Question about Homestuck (and the other Homestuck subpages): is the "meta and fan content" folder the kind of "meta" you mean here?

I'd say that people just lend their hand whenever they can, and this thread is a good place to mention particularly bad pages that you came across but do not have time to edit yourself or to mention that it need context from fans or people familiar with it.

Or is there a way to keep track of the progress?

OMG, the page is a mess. Weblinks Are Not Examples and multipled letters, Example Indentation... It hurts my eyes.

edited 27th Apr '13 12:02:13 PM by XFllo

To be fair, if you see capslock/multipled letters/leetspeak in quotes, it's because it's actually like that in the comic.

But yeah, our editors do have a weblinks-as-examples issue and it's amazingly long because people have been adding every other update to the page since act 5... Surprisingly, though, little or no "I"/"this troper".

I was just wondering if the fanworks section was still allowed.

that I do not know, maybe you should ask one of the higher ups?

Which fanworks section?

Well MLP:FIM has a fanworks and other section. A lot of really popular pieces of media have a fanworks section, but they seem to also contain conversation in the main page and poorly hidden opinions and troper tales.

I was referring to the fanworks section on the Homestuck subpages, but the answer would presumably apply to any subpage with a fanworks section.

Fanworks are supposed to be on their own page.

okay, the skyrim pages seem to build up a lot of this troper and I stuff. It happens repeatedly, would someone like to take a swing at all those pages?