Duplicate Trope: Conceive And Kill get usage counts
Deadlock Clock: 30th May 2013 11:59:00 PM

Total posts: [53]
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1 lu1279th Feb 2013 07:56:39 AM from the Forest of Thorns , Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
This one should be fairly straightforward.

This was launched with barely any feedback and some messy categorization. It easily fits into the mold of Black Widow—-the woman kills her partner after they mate. While money is a prime motivation, I don't think it should be limited to that. We could tweak the description of Black Widow, then merge this one there.

Opinions?
小さく揺れた向日葵
We should cut this but the description of Black Widow definitely needs a rewrite. It's way too specific.
3 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 08:30:01 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Agree on all counts.
4 tdgoodrich19th Feb 2013 08:33:19 AM from Atlanta , Relationship Status: Californicating
Remember When You Used To Be A Rascal?
+1 to torch it and rewrite Black Widow.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
5 Noaqiyeum9th Feb 2013 08:37:21 AM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
By the title I was actually expecting this to duplicate Offing the Offspring.

But yes. Merge to Black Widow and rewrite.
6 Xtifr9th Feb 2013 10:07:37 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Another +1 to merge and rewrite.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
7 AnotherDuck9th Feb 2013 10:15:50 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
What they said. I don't think it's sufficiently distinct.
Check out my fanfiction!
8 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 10:18:49 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Can we use the Rule Of Seven here? Especially with recent launches?
9 AnotherDuck9th Feb 2013 10:37:29 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Taking the complete lack of feedback in the YKTTW (well, there was one, but I interpret that as agreeing with the popular opinion in this thread), I don't think it would hurt.
Check out my fanfiction!
10 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 11:00:11 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Yeah, I remember the YKTTW. Was in fact tempted to tag it as duplicate.
Seeking for Light
I disagree with merging, primarily because Black Widow is a pre-existing term which means exactly what the current trope defines it as (serially killing off husbands for monetary gain).
12 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 11:48:28 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Wiktionary says it's about husbandkillers in general.
[up][up]I know Black Widow pre-existing term but don't think it's that specific.
14 Noaqiyeum9th Feb 2013 12:49:15 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
All of the murderers listed on the Wikipedia disambiguation page got the nickname from being convicted or suspected serial killers.

edited 9th Feb '13 12:49:30 PM by Noaqiyeum

15 Madrugada9th Feb 2013 01:03:14 PM , Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
A Black Widow is a woman who marries then kills several husbands in a row. It is usually, but does not have to be for monetary gain.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
It has to be more than one?
17 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 01:10:08 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
When referring to serial killers, yes, because a serial killer needs to have at lest 3 murders to be a serial killer.
So, does this trope only deal with female serial killers?
19 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 01:16:27 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Both tropes under discussion are female, per their descriptions.
20 m8e9th Feb 2013 01:43:33 PM from Sweden , Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
[up]But not about serial killers.

Black Widow is a serial killer that murder her husbands for monetary gains.
Conceive and Kill is about getting pregnant an killing the father when he has "filled his role".

edited 9th Feb '13 1:44:59 PM by m8e

21 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 01:46:08 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
So, since we agree that killing several husbands makes a woman a Black Widow, the question is whether a single killed husband would qualify. I'd say yes, given that it's right in the name (it takes just one husband to be a "widow")
22 m8e9th Feb 2013 01:58:40 PM from Sweden , Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
Sounds reasonable, but there is still the difference that one of them is about money and marriage and the other one about genes and offspring.

One gets pregnant and then kills the father for whatever reason(like eating them). The other one get merried and kills the husband for money.

edited 9th Feb '13 2:00:47 PM by m8e

Agreed with m8e. I started this one because it is distinct from the black widow trope in that in a lot of these fictional situations, there does not seem to be extreme malice on the part of the female.

Sometimes, as in the case of the H'nemthe, both genders regarded it (in a possibly misguided way) as being just part of life's cycle and regarded it as being true love if the normal process was followed. Male H'nemthe willingly participated, as they believed that if they died this way, they would be spiritual guardians for their offspring in the next world.

Compare this with the black widow trope, where the killing tends to be carried out for malicious motives. Also, in the world of fiction, the black widow trope is not necessarily to be entwined with sex and reproduction (though it is with black widow spiders in real life). In the context of the trope I have created, it is not necessarily entwined with malice (i.e. hatred) and also, this trope deals specifically with when the killing happens following sex and conception.

Apologies for my failure to follow due process in the creation of this trope: - I am new to this Wiki and I am still struggling to understand how things work.
24 SeptimusHeap9th Feb 2013 03:06:47 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
YKTTW is due process for creating a trope (although ignoring objections isn't).

That said, I still don't agree on a distinction between the tropes. To wit, real life black widow spiders also have this as an arguable normal behaviour.

edited 9th Feb '13 3:10:02 PM by SeptimusHeap

25 Noaqiyeum9th Feb 2013 03:08:15 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
The trope and idiom Black Widow, however, does not.

Single Proposition: Conceive And Kill
1st Jun '13 7:08:33 AM
Vote up for yes, down for no.
At issue:

Total posts: 53
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