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Duplicate Trope: Conceive And Kill get usage counts

 1 lu 127, Sat, 9th Feb '13 7:56:39 AM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
This one should be fairly straightforward.

This was launched with barely any feedback and some messy categorization. It easily fits into the mold of Black Widow—-the woman kills her partner after they mate. While money is a prime motivation, I don't think it should be limited to that. We could tweak the description of Black Widow, then merge this one there.

Opinions?
小さく揺れた向日葵
We should cut this but the description of Black Widow definitely needs a rewrite. It's way too specific.

 3 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 8:30:01 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Agree on all counts.

 4 tdgoodrich 1, Sat, 9th Feb '13 8:33:19 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Any Poor Souls Who Trespass Against Us...
+1 to torch it and rewrite Black Widow.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 5 Noaqiyeum, Sat, 9th Feb '13 8:37:21 AM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
By the title I was actually expecting this to duplicate Offing the Offspring.

But yes. Merge to Black Widow and rewrite.
"I know I raised more questions than I answered, but I hope now we are all confused on an higher level and about more important things."
 6 Xtifr, Sat, 9th Feb '13 10:07:37 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Another +1 to merge and rewrite.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 7 Another Duck, Sat, 9th Feb '13 10:15:50 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
What they said. I don't think it's sufficiently distinct.
Check out my fanfiction!
 8 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 10:18:49 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Can we use the Rule Of Seven here? Especially with recent launches?

 9 Another Duck, Sat, 9th Feb '13 10:37:29 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Taking the complete lack of feedback in the YKTTW (well, there was one, but I interpret that as agreeing with the popular opinion in this thread), I don't think it would hurt.
Check out my fanfiction!
 10 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 11:00:11 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Yeah, I remember the YKTTW. Was in fact tempted to tag it as duplicate.

Seeking for Light
I disagree with merging, primarily because Black Widow is a pre-existing term which means exactly what the current trope defines it as (serially killing off husbands for monetary gain).

 12 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 11:48:28 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Wiktionary says it's about husbandkillers in general.

[up][up]I know Black Widow pre-existing term but don't think it's that specific.

 14 Noaqiyeum, Sat, 9th Feb '13 12:49:15 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
All of the murderers listed on the Wikipedia disambiguation page got the nickname from being convicted or suspected serial killers.

edited 9th Feb '13 12:49:30 PM by Noaqiyeum

"I know I raised more questions than I answered, but I hope now we are all confused on an higher level and about more important things."
 15 Madrugada, Sat, 9th Feb '13 1:03:14 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
A Black Widow is a woman who marries then kills several husbands in a row. It is usually, but does not have to be for monetary gain.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
It has to be more than one?

 17 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 1:10:08 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
When referring to serial killers, yes, because a serial killer needs to have at lest 3 murders to be a serial killer.

So, does this trope only deal with female serial killers?

 19 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 1:16:27 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Both tropes under discussion are female, per their descriptions.

 20 m8e, Sat, 9th Feb '13 1:43:33 PM from Sweden Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
[up]But not about serial killers.

Black Widow is a serial killer that murder her husbands for monetary gains.
Conceive and Kill is about getting pregnant an killing the father when he has "filled his role".

edited 9th Feb '13 1:44:59 PM by m8e

 21 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 1:46:08 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
So, since we agree that killing several husbands makes a woman a Black Widow, the question is whether a single killed husband would qualify. I'd say yes, given that it's right in the name (it takes just one husband to be a "widow")

 22 m8e, Sat, 9th Feb '13 1:58:40 PM from Sweden Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
Sounds reasonable, but there is still the difference that one of them is about money and marriage and the other one about genes and offspring.

One gets pregnant and then kills the father for whatever reason(like eating them). The other one get merried and kills the husband for money.

edited 9th Feb '13 2:00:47 PM by m8e

Agreed with m8e. I started this one because it is distinct from the black widow trope in that in a lot of these fictional situations, there does not seem to be extreme malice on the part of the female.

Sometimes, as in the case of the H'nemthe, both genders regarded it (in a possibly misguided way) as being just part of life's cycle and regarded it as being true love if the normal process was followed. Male H'nemthe willingly participated, as they believed that if they died this way, they would be spiritual guardians for their offspring in the next world.

Compare this with the black widow trope, where the killing tends to be carried out for malicious motives. Also, in the world of fiction, the black widow trope is not necessarily to be entwined with sex and reproduction (though it is with black widow spiders in real life). In the context of the trope I have created, it is not necessarily entwined with malice (i.e. hatred) and also, this trope deals specifically with when the killing happens following sex and conception.

Apologies for my failure to follow due process in the creation of this trope: - I am new to this Wiki and I am still struggling to understand how things work.
 
 24 Septimus Heap, Sat, 9th Feb '13 3:06:47 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
YKTTW is due process for creating a trope (although ignoring objections isn't).

That said, I still don't agree on a distinction between the tropes. To wit, real life black widow spiders also have this as an arguable normal behaviour.

edited 9th Feb '13 3:10:02 PM by SeptimusHeap

 25 Noaqiyeum, Sat, 9th Feb '13 3:08:15 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
The trope and idiom Black Widow, however, does not.
"I know I raised more questions than I answered, but I hope now we are all confused on an higher level and about more important things."

Single Proposition: Conceive And Kill
1st Jun '13 7:08:33 AM
Vote up for yes, down for no.
At issue:
Total posts: 53
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