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Unclear Description: During The War get usage counts

 1 nrjxll, Mon, 8th Oct '12 1:36:18 AM Relationship Status: Not war
While I think it's pretty clear what this is supposed to be, the description is a completely incoherent mess. It reads as if the introductory paragraph(s) was completely deleted for some reason, inexplicably switches between second- and third-person writing, and devotes an entire paragraph to "noting" examples. I think I can honestly say that this is one of the worst descriptions I've seen in a long time.

In addition, the unorthodox example sorting seems pretty pointless and, especially in the case of the "Fictional Wars" section, pretty confusing as well. And the quotes - both on the main and quotes page - seem to have nothing in common except having to do with war.

 2 pittsburghmuggle, Sun, 14th Oct '12 12:33:12 AM from Pittsburgh, PA USA
Pittsburghmuggle
I agree. The description made me scratch my head. I came by due to characters saying "back in the war" when the war is ambiguous. I'm frankly not sure if this trope applies to that or any work set during a war.

I went to check Laconic, but that isn't filled in.

edited 14th Oct '12 12:33:46 AM by pittsburghmuggle

"Freedom is not a license for chaos" -Norton Juster's The Dot and the Line: A Romance in Lower Mathematics
 3 RJ Savoy, Sun, 14th Oct '12 12:56:47 PM from Edinburgh Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Reymmă
This description isn't just bad; it's the apotheosis of all the worst descriptions I've ever seen on this wiki. Needs work immediately, but I wish someone would preserve it as a memorial to the TRS's deeds, and the brave souls who risked their sanity reading such things.

I'm not wondering how to rewrite it, I'm wondering what the trope is. Is it just about works set during wars?
 4 nrjxll, Sun, 14th Oct '12 1:44:24 PM Relationship Status: Not war
That's what I think.

 5 Xtifr, Mon, 15th Oct '12 4:06:48 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Ouch! Reading this caused me to facepalm so hard I nearly drew blood! :)

My guess is that someone wanted to shovel Military Fiction into a great big bucket with stories where a war is simply a (possibly distant) part of the background. Now, I'm no splitter, but that seems like at least two very different tropes to me.

Of course, I can only guess at the intentions, since the trope is never stated.

eta: Gah, we have an index of Military Science-Fiction, but no index of Military Fiction?

eta x2: never mind; we have Military and Warfare Films, Military and Warfare Literature, etc.

edited 15th Oct '12 4:11:16 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
Ecce Homo Superior
[up]I'm with you. I can't figure out what the hell this trope is supposed to be. I wouldn't lose any sleep if it got cut or sent back to YKTTW.
(it's David Bowie)
 7 lu 127, Sat, 1st Dec '12 3:48:24 AM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Clocking, let's fix this awful thing.
小さく揺れた向日葵
 8 Septimus Heap, Sat, 1st Dec '12 1:01:17 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Would
Stories set during a war. War Is Hell is kinda an assumption here.
be an acceptable replacement for the first three or four paragraphs?

edited 1st Dec '12 1:01:28 PM by SeptimusHeap

 9 nrjxll, Sat, 1st Dec '12 3:14:09 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'm going to say that the best thing to do here is probably send it back to YMMV. I just don't see how it can be fixed as it is.

 10 Septimus Heap, Sat, 1st Dec '12 3:15:33 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
YKTTW, you mean. I for one think it's supposed to be for works that are set during a war. At least, that is what the description says to me.

 11 nrjxll, Sat, 1st Dec '12 3:17:46 PM Relationship Status: Not war
So do I, but I think it might be easier to cut it and start over then to try and rework what little there is now into an actual trope.

(Whoops.)

 12 Madrugada, Sat, 1st Dec '12 3:29:24 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
That's what it looks like to me, as well, especially after reading the whole preserved edit history, and looking at the reasons given for additions and deletions.

It's simply an index of works "set during a war", and from that POV, the sorting pattern, while not typical, makes sense — alphabetical by (war in chronological order). I don't see any reason to change that.

I'm not sure what there is to YKTTW.

Incidentally, the page has been around since 2010.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 13 nrjxll, Sat, 1st Dec '12 4:07:17 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]The description is an incoherent mess, and if it's just supposed to be an index, then it's not even necessary. As for the example sorting, the problem comes in with the highly arbitrary "Fictional Wars" section.

 14 Septimus Heap, Sat, 1st Dec '12 4:12:06 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
YKTTW is really not a good place for description fixing, I'm afraid. There is a Special Efforts thread that could address description issues.

 15 Native Jovian, Sat, 1st Dec '12 4:52:59 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
The page at the moment looks mostly like an index of "works set during wars" — but note that it's not actually an index (the pagetype is "trope", without indexing turned on). And what I've mostly seen it used around the wiki is as a setting (which is, in fact, what During the War is indexed as). I'd also question the need for an index of "stuff during wars" in the first place.

I'd say revamp it as a setting trope, with two variants: works that take place during a war, or backstory elements that took place during a war. eg, "This work takes place on the front lines of WWII" or "This character lost their legs During the War, twenty years before the work is set".

edited 1st Dec '12 4:53:32 PM by NativeJovian

 16 Xtifr, Sat, 1st Dec '12 5:42:07 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I agree with making it (or keeping it as, depending on how you look at it) a setting trope.

I think the examples should be sorted by medium, like any normal trope.

eta: I've been thinking for a while of taking an After The War ("antebellum") setting trope to YKTTW, and this would complement that nicely. As for the backstory thing, that seems more like a separate trope.

edited 1st Dec '12 5:45:43 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
[up]But, of course, "antebellum" means "before the war."

 18 Xtifr, Tue, 4th Dec '12 12:17:39 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
[up] Whoops, duh, yeah. What's the term that's commonly applied to works set just after the civil war?

eta: please PM if you know the answer; I don't want to derail this any farther.

eta x2: answered (and now I feel dumb). :)

edited 4th Dec '12 12:25:12 AM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 19 Native Jovian, Tue, 4th Dec '12 10:16:31 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
After The War seems like a good compliment to During the War; that would let During the War focus on... well, stuff that actually happens during a war. In other words, in my previous example, the character who lost their legs during a war twenty years ago would be After The War instead of During the War.
 20 Xtifr, Thu, 6th Dec '12 6:01:46 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I disagree that TRS isn't really for fixing descriptions; I've certainly seen descriptions fixed at TRS countless times. I've even written new descriptions at TRS at least half a dozen times. But I still think the bizarre organization/sorting is the worst part of this, and would strongly move to re-organize it like a normal trope. Should we have a crowner?

(It's been suggested that it's nearly impossible to resolve a TRS thread without a crowner, though I have occasionally seen it done.)
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 21 Septimus Heap, Fri, 7th Dec '12 12:09:39 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
[up]We have a thread in Special Efforts for description fixing. I have misgivings about making threads in the limited space of TRS about things that have SE threads.

 22 Noaqiyeum, Fri, 1st Feb '13 3:16:23 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the iit-thiingy
So this should go to Special Projects and lock?
tiinker, Tailor, hunter!!!, wwhaler
d0ct0r, L4WY3R, MUTANT, C)(I-EF
STRONGman, wEAKMAN, JoKeRmAn, Th8ef
 23 Septimus Heap, Fri, 1st Feb '13 3:18:12 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
The Trope Description Improvement Drive thread, you mean.

 24 Noaqiyeum, Fri, 1st Feb '13 4:22:36 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the iit-thiingy
Yes, that one.
tiinker, Tailor, hunter!!!, wwhaler
d0ct0r, L4WY3R, MUTANT, C)(I-EF
STRONGman, wEAKMAN, JoKeRmAn, Th8ef
I'll write up a description and post it here. Tell me if it sounds good.
Don't make me destroy you. @ Castle Series
Total posts: 36
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