Unclear Description: During The War get usage counts
Deadlock Clock: 4th Dec 2012 11:59:00 PM

Total posts: [36]
1 nrjxll8th Oct 2012 01:36:18 AM , Relationship Status: Not war
While I think it's pretty clear what this is supposed to be, the description is a completely incoherent mess. It reads as if the introductory paragraph(s) was completely deleted for some reason, inexplicably switches between second- and third-person writing, and devotes an entire paragraph to "noting" examples. I think I can honestly say that this is one of the worst descriptions I've seen in a long time.

In addition, the unorthodox example sorting seems pretty pointless and, especially in the case of the "Fictional Wars" section, pretty confusing as well. And the quotes - both on the main and quotes page - seem to have nothing in common except having to do with war.
I agree. The description made me scratch my head. I came by due to characters saying "back in the war" when the war is ambiguous. I'm frankly not sure if this trope applies to that or any work set during a war.

I went to check Laconic, but that isn't filled in.

edited 14th Oct '12 12:33:46 AM by pittsburghmuggle

"Freedom is not a license for chaos" -Norton Juster's The Dot and the Line: A Romance in Lower Mathematics
3 RJSavoy14th Oct 2012 12:56:47 PM from Edinburgh , Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
This description isn't just bad; it's the apotheosis of all the worst descriptions I've ever seen on this wiki. Needs work immediately, but I wish someone would preserve it as a memorial to the TRS's deeds, and the brave souls who risked their sanity reading such things.

I'm not wondering how to rewrite it, I'm wondering what the trope is. Is it just about works set during wars?
4 nrjxll14th Oct 2012 01:44:24 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
That's what I think.
5 Xtifr15th Oct 2012 04:06:48 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Ouch! Reading this caused me to facepalm so hard I nearly drew blood! :)

My guess is that someone wanted to shovel Military Fiction into a great big bucket with stories where a war is simply a (possibly distant) part of the background. Now, I'm no splitter, but that seems like at least two very different tropes to me.

Of course, I can only guess at the intentions, since the trope is never stated.

eta: Gah, we have an index of Military Science-Fiction, but no index of Military Fiction?

eta x2: never mind; we have Military and Warfare Films, Military and Warfare Literature, etc.

edited 15th Oct '12 4:11:16 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
[up]I'm with you. I can't figure out what the hell this trope is supposed to be. I wouldn't lose any sleep if it got cut or sent back to YKTTW.
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
7 lu1271st Dec 2012 03:48:24 AM from 七夜 , Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Clocking, let's fix this awful thing.
8 SeptimusHeap1st Dec 2012 01:01:17 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Stories set during a war. War Is Hell is kinda an assumption here.
be an acceptable replacement for the first three or four paragraphs?

edited 1st Dec '12 1:01:28 PM by SeptimusHeap

9 nrjxll1st Dec 2012 03:14:09 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
I'm going to say that the best thing to do here is probably send it back to YMMV. I just don't see how it can be fixed as it is.
10 SeptimusHeap1st Dec 2012 03:15:33 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
YKTTW, you mean. I for one think it's supposed to be for works that are set during a war. At least, that is what the description says to me.
11 nrjxll1st Dec 2012 03:17:46 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
So do I, but I think it might be easier to cut it and start over then to try and rework what little there is now into an actual trope.

12 Madrugada1st Dec 2012 03:29:24 PM , Relationship Status: In season
That's what it looks like to me, as well, especially after reading the whole preserved edit history, and looking at the reasons given for additions and deletions.

It's simply an index of works "set during a war", and from that POV, the sorting pattern, while not typical, makes sense — alphabetical by (war in chronological order). I don't see any reason to change that.

I'm not sure what there is to YKTTW.

Incidentally, the page has been around since 2010.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
13 nrjxll1st Dec 2012 04:07:17 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up]The description is an incoherent mess, and if it's just supposed to be an index, then it's not even necessary. As for the example sorting, the problem comes in with the highly arbitrary "Fictional Wars" section.
14 SeptimusHeap1st Dec 2012 04:12:06 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
YKTTW is really not a good place for description fixing, I'm afraid. There is a Special Efforts thread that could address description issues.
15 NativeJovian1st Dec 2012 04:52:59 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
The page at the moment looks mostly like an index of "works set during wars" — but note that it's not actually an index (the pagetype is "trope", without indexing turned on). And what I've mostly seen it used around the wiki is as a setting (which is, in fact, what During the War is indexed as). I'd also question the need for an index of "stuff during wars" in the first place.

I'd say revamp it as a setting trope, with two variants: works that take place during a war, or backstory elements that took place during a war. eg, "This work takes place on the front lines of WWII" or "This character lost their legs During the War, twenty years before the work is set".

edited 1st Dec '12 4:53:32 PM by NativeJovian

16 Xtifr1st Dec 2012 05:42:07 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I agree with making it (or keeping it as, depending on how you look at it) a setting trope.

I think the examples should be sorted by medium, like any normal trope.

eta: I've been thinking for a while of taking an After The War ("antebellum") setting trope to YKTTW, and this would complement that nicely. As for the backstory thing, that seems more like a separate trope.

edited 1st Dec '12 5:45:43 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
[up]But, of course, "antebellum" means "before the war."
18 Xtifr4th Dec 2012 12:17:39 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
[up] Whoops, duh, yeah. What's the term that's commonly applied to works set just after the civil war?

eta: please PM if you know the answer; I don't want to derail this any farther.

eta x2: answered (and now I feel dumb). :)

edited 4th Dec '12 12:25:12 AM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
19 NativeJovian4th Dec 2012 10:16:31 AM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
After The War seems like a good compliment to During the War; that would let During the War focus on... well, stuff that actually happens during a war. In other words, in my previous example, the character who lost their legs during a war twenty years ago would be After The War instead of During the War.
20 Xtifr6th Dec 2012 06:01:46 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I disagree that TRS isn't really for fixing descriptions; I've certainly seen descriptions fixed at TRS countless times. I've even written new descriptions at TRS at least half a dozen times. But I still think the bizarre organization/sorting is the worst part of this, and would strongly move to re-organize it like a normal trope. Should we have a crowner?

(It's been suggested that it's nearly impossible to resolve a TRS thread without a crowner, though I have occasionally seen it done.)
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
21 SeptimusHeap7th Dec 2012 12:09:39 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
[up]We have a thread in Special Efforts for description fixing. I have misgivings about making threads in the limited space of TRS about things that have SE threads.

22 Noaqiyeum1st Feb 2013 03:16:23 PM from Kcymaerxthaere , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
So this should go to Special Projects and lock?
Quarantine Is Job #1
23 SeptimusHeap1st Feb 2013 03:18:12 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
The Trope Description Improvement Drive thread, you mean.
24 Noaqiyeum1st Feb 2013 04:22:36 PM from Kcymaerxthaere , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
Yes, that one.
Quarantine Is Job #1
I'll write up a description and post it here. Tell me if it sounds good.
Don't make me destroy you. @ Castle Series

Total posts: 36