Misused: Alternate Company Equivalent

Looking at the comics sections, the examples of Alternate Company Equivalent and Captain Ersatz aren't a complete match, but there are definitely some shared examples between them and both seem to be used as "a character deliberately created to stand in for another".

There seems to be a sense that Captain Ersatz is a subtrope of ACE, but if that's the case they shouldn't be on ACE, especially as they may be obscuring what the trope actually is. I was looking for the trope/YMMV/trivia that describes such pairs as "Aquaman/Namor" and "Dr. Strange/Dr. Fate", and my impression is that ACE comes closest, but I'm not sure if Aquaman/Namor, the most obvious example, has ever been on that page except indirectly, so maybe not. I don't think it helps that on This Index Is Copypasted, both are listed as subtropes of Expy, which might actually be narrower than either one.

Clocking.

Bumping, as this has come under discussion as an extension of Misused:Expy.

I think Alternate Company Equivalent would actually be a subtrope of Captain Ersatz, rather than the other way around.

Just did some major example section cleaning in an attempt to fight Trope Decay. A lot of stuff moved out to Captain Ersatz, Follow the Leader, and other tropes.

No, AlternateCompanyEquivalents are not CaptainErsatzes. A Captain Ersatz is identical to the source character, except with a different name. Is Thor identical to Superman? No, unless Superman is a god with a hammer.

Some of the examples on Alternate Company Equivalent might be Expies, but some of them are just Counterpart Comparison. For example, the entry about The Flash and Quicksilver is Counterpart Comparison, unless someone can show that one of these characters is the model for the other. The next entry says that Spider-man is the model for Static, which means that Static is an Expy of Spider-man.

So here is my proposal: Move examples to Expy or Counterpart Comparison, then redirect Alternate Company Equivalent to Counterpart Comparison.

(EDIT: Just adjusting the formatting of this post.)

edited 11th Nov '12 8:38:06 PM by Kernigh

Bumping because I would like a single proposition crowner:

• Reasons to vote YES: Alternate Company Equivalent might be a duplicate of Captain Ersatz, Expy, Counterpart Comparison, or Follow the Leader.
• Reasons to vote NO: Alternate Company Equivalent might be a supertrope or subtrope, not a duplicate. Some cleanup has already happened, moving some examples from Alternate Company Equivalent to other tropes.

I would create the crowner, but I can't use the crowner controls. The link in [1] does not seem to work for me. I am guessing that I just need one other regular user to create the crowner.

I'll make the crowner.

EDIT: Made it, and PM'd Wilbyr to hook it.

edited 2nd Dec '12 9:12:03 PM by WaxingName

Sorry, I had forgotten about this thread. I am too busy in other TRS threads. (By the way, I have since read Administrivia.How Crowners Work and learned how to create my own crowners.)

Waxing Name made this crowner. It hasn't been hooked here. I am now hollering the moderators to hook it here.

That crowner is full of these vague crowner options that are the bane of any cleanup crew - in fact, when I saw it yesterday I considered hollering for a hook but then I saw the options and decided that it wouldn't work. Can we get something clearer?

edited 30th Dec '12 1:02:57 AM by SeptimusHeap

That crowner is badly made. Not hooking it.

When I wrote the crowner, I tried to follow the instructions from How to Fix A Trope:

> "Put a summary of the debate, ideally in the form of pros and cons, on the single proposition. Trying to tip the crowner the way you want it to go by leaving off or misrepresenting the reasons the other side presents is frowned on."

Therefore, instead of writing a simple description, I tried to think of every possible reason why someone would want to vote yes or no. I crammed all of these reasons into the crowner, and the result is a crowner full of "vague crowner options", as Septimus Heap says.

My own position is that Alternate Company Equivalent is a duplicate trope. Some examples belong at Expy, some at Counterpart Comparison. However, I can't write a crowner like this, because I would be "trying to tip the crowner".

The key word is "summary", not "graduate thesis", and more broadly "summary of the debate", i.e. reasons that have already been raised. If you don't trust yourself enough to represent both sides fairly without resorting to, well, that, maybe you should leave it to someone else.

edited 31st Dec '12 6:49:02 AM by MorganWick

That crowner is full of "vague options". That's not the same thing as "summary of debate".

Post #5 (5 November): I proposed to redirect Alternate Company Equivalent to Counterpart Comparison. Post #6 (2 December): I wrote an awful crowner.

No person said anything between post #5 (5 November) and post #6 (2 December). The lack of discussion frustrated me, so I wrote a crowner. I had to wait until posts #9 and #10 (30 December) to learn that the crowner was junk.

There was no discussion for 8 weeks (except about one crowner). I wonder if I am a troll who delayed the discussion for 8 weeks!

Here is a partial list of the examples from Alternate Company Equivalent, and where I want to move them. This list includes everything except some of the Comics.

Comics

• Marvel's Superman clones => Counterpart Comparison
• Marvel's Batman clones => Counterpart Comparison
• Mongul of DC => Expy
• King Faraday and Nick Fury => Zero Context Example
• Imperial Guard => Expy
• Star Brand => Expy
• Green Goblin and Bullseye => Counterpart Comparison
• Adventures of Superman #466 => Expy
• DC's Lobo => Expy
• Captain Thunder => Expy
• Swamp Thing and Man-Thing => Counterpart Comparison
• X-Men and Doom Patrol => Counterpart Comparison
• Freedom Fighters and Invaders => Expy
• Squadron Supreme => Expy
• ...

Live Action TV

• Star Trek and Doctor Who => Counterpart Comparison
• Daily Show => Expy

Music

• Disney Channel and Nickelodeon => Counterpart Comparison

Myths & Religion

• Indo-European mythologies => Counterpart Comparison
• Christianity => Counterpart Comparison

Pro Wrestling

• Demolition and the Powers of Pain => Counterpart Comparison
• Abyss => Counterpart Comparison
• AAA's La Parka Jr. => Counterpart Comparison

Toys

• Bandai's Machine Robo => Counterpart Comparison

Video Games

• SNK and Capcom => Counterpart Comparison
• Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe => See footnote, below.

Western Animation

• Terrific Trio => Expy
• Terry and some of his Rogues Gallery => Counterpart Comparison
• homage to Marvel's Defenders => Expy
• The Faceless Hunter => Counterpart Comparison
• DC Nation => See footnote, below.

Real Life

• Armed forces => See footnote, below.
• Soft drinks => See footnote, below.
• staffs at both DC and Marvel => Counterpart Comparison

The footnote: I have found only four examples that aren't about expies or counterparts of other characters. These are Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe (equivalent of Marvel vs Capcom), DC Nation (equivalent of Marvel Universe), and two real life examples. These four examples are comparing things that are not characters, so I can't put them on Expy or Counterpart Comparison.

Generally, you ask for hooking by a holler, not by a PM. Maybe that was the issue. And yes, that it took so long for a reply is a problem but already discussed here

Just saw this. Perhaps just rename the trope to something about like Dueling Show Counterpart Characters to make it more distinct to similar companies?

Locking due to lack of activity.