Defeated Idealism

@Grim

How could I ever forget this? xD

Baccano is a pretty good anime. :3 But it's more like a western show than anything. :p

@Kay: ... Why did I just watch that all the way through?

I do find it kind of amusing that no one has actually replied to my on-topic post, though.

Because it's amaaaaaaazing!

And yeah, I mostly agree with your on-topic post.

@Grimview: I also agree with it. Perhaps people are more likely to reply to something they object to.

@kay: Out of curiosity, why don't you like Kiritsugu? He acts pretty much exclusively to make the world a better place, according to the best information he has at the time.

Edit: On second thought, let's continue this in the right thread, to avoid too much of a derail.

edited 17th Aug '12 12:18:34 AM by Enthryn

Probably the case, yes.

I just found it amusing that I accidentally killed the on-topic discussion.

What on topic discussion? THIS! IS! YACK FEST!

edited 17th Aug '12 8:23:37 AM by IraTheSquire

A defeated idealist is one who ran out of persistence. Persistence is the key to all things in life. It's like my parents used to say — if you failed it's because you weren't trying hard enough. I happen to think that's a load of tripe (Asian parents, bah, humbug) but you'll find that so many things in life require sheer, bloody-minded persistence if you want to be successful. I see persistence as an expendable resource that must occasionally be replenished by taking a break from fighting for the cause, whatever cause that might be. Whether this takes hours, weeks, months, or even years, everyone has to recharge their batteries every now and then. In that regard, an idealist is rarely "defeated" like they are in the movies.

This I disagree with. In my opinion, it encourages a mentality whereby the struggle is far more important than the goal; where intentions are a substitute for results. The most common piece of advice I've received from people on how to be successful is to set a series of realistic goals that will lead up to the big one. My favorite term for these is the 25m goals. In bite-size chunks, things that seem insurmountable really aren't. Then, once you've achieved your one goal, you can keep striving or stay where you are depending on whether or not you are comfortable with your lot in life. In that regard, I agree that once you've achieved something you should probably look up and see what is next.

edited 17th Aug '12 4:08:08 AM by HouraiRabbit

Perhaps you've misinterpreted what I said. I view ideals as something distinct from personal goals; my goals are things I personally want to achieve for my own sake (and most of them are fairly reasonable and practical), while my ideals are basically the conditions I'd have to continuously meet to be perfect. My ideals are at the limit of what's theoretically possible to reach, so it's not possible to live up to them completely. Rather, they're something to which I believe I should try to get as close as possible.

And I haven't made the mistake of substituting intentions for results: my ideals can be summed up as "get the best possible results for everyone". I don't care much about intentions except as a predictor of future actions.

I sold out my shut in ideals to obtain friends and influence beyond my advocacy of the Hikikomori Agenda.

Where's MY time in the sun being called out by Fox News for having a dangerous agenda that's festering in the heart of Middle America? From the other side of the world? Via the ANZUS Treaty?

I used to believe in shut in solidarity, but I'm the worst shut in ever. I'm not even strong willed enough to not go outside, since I attend University and hence barely qualify as even a NEET. And I have too much ambition and drive to be The Slacker. My parents are proud of my grades, barely ashamed that I still live with them because they're getting old and want to exploit the jar opening abilities my supple, young arms offer their tired old bodies, it's a disgrace to shut ins everywhere.

Next minute you know, I was being praised by my professors for having a unique vision of artistic merit applied to my Visual Art studies. I should be ashamed of myself, I let my hero Tatsuhiko Takimoto down.

Good for you.

I must admit I'm amused by the idea of a Freaky Loner Agenda. What is it?

'Let's all stay inside all the time! Together, the world...will...forget we exist. But only until we die and go rotten! Then we shall rain bluebottle maggots on the heads of people who live beneath our grotty council flats!'

edited 19th Aug '12 12:03:16 AM by InverurieJones

Man. Someone doing an Idealism post that isn't me. That's a twist.

As was said earlier in the thread, Idealism that is defeated so easily is just naivety, though I think there are some who see any form of Idealism as being naive, and thus needing a dose of reality.

Thus the piles of stories when the Dumb Is Good Idiot Hero Wide-Eyed Idealist gets broken to bits, not only to show them how the world supposedly works in real life, but also to prove how Grimdark the setting is.

Weak Idealism is bad, but that doesn't mean all forms of idealism needs to be crushed.

I just want to see more realistic Idealism.

Real life political idealism inspired this website in honour of the first anniversary of a great man's death.

I've rambled enough about him elsewhere, though, so I'll not do so here.