Duplicate Trope: Recycled In Space

I need to see some pretty powerful evidence of problems to support messing with this trope in any way.

I don't think we need a bright line between this and Whole-Plot Reference. They're two separate things that can and do overlap, but don't have to. Many of Shakespeare's plays are a Whole-Plot Reference to earlier works, but don't update the setting, so they're not Recycled In. Forbidden Planet is both a Whole-Plot Reference to The Tempest and Recycled In Space (literally). But Star Trek is Recycled In Space but not Whole-Plot Reference. The concepts are orthogonal, even though they frequently overlap.

BTW, if no one objects in the next day or two, I'm going to go ahead and make Recycled In a redirect.

edited 14th Aug '12 2:21:35 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

About the second thing mentioned in the first post, quoting the own description of the trope, in "Some common things to avoid" :

"If an idea seems to be ripping off another idea, it's Better by a Different Name. It needs to be blatant in its advertising that it is a copy for it to count. You could argue that "Eragon was better when it was called Star Wars" but since nothing ever advertises the similarities, it doesn't count as this."

That almost never happens.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

From here on out, what this trope is a good pothole, I use X Meets Y instead. Wonder if this trope is Pothole Abuse?

It doesn't have to be in its own advertising.

I think the big point here is Recycled In doesn't mean the story is recycled plot point for plot point (that's a Whole-Plot Reference). It means the general structure and concept is recycled.

For example: The Jetsons is Father Knows Best Recycled In SPACE. The Flintstones is The Honeymooners Recycled In The Stone Age. Star Trek (the original series) was pitched as "Wagon Train to the stars". In each case, the plots are not being duplicated from the original shows; only the general concepts.

I think it's difficult for a movie to be Recycled In SPACE without being a Whole-Plot Reference, but TV shows do it all the time.

edited 20th Aug '12 8:15:21 AM by Escher

Word of God confirmed The Jetsons status as The Flintstones Recycled In Space. Source to it being Father Knows Best Recycled In Space?

edited 20th Aug '12 9:34:43 AM by MagBas

It's not just individual works. General storylines and archetypes can be Recycled In Space. For example, the Hardboiled Detective Recycled In a Standard Fantasy Setting. (See how handy my new redirect can be?) :)

An individual film can't recycle a specific work without being an instance of Whole-Plot Reference as well (generally speaking), but it can recycle broad storylines and archetypes without being a Whole-Plot Reference.

Hence, the two tropes can and do overlap, but don't have to. Recycled In Space is a setting trope; Whole-Plot Reference is a plot trope.

X Meets Y is a broader trope, but I don't think it refers to settings in general. One wouldn't say "the Hardboiled Detective meets a Standard Fantasy Setting", though one might say "the Hardboiled Detective meets High Fantasy". But that's not quite the same thing. And X Meets Y is definitely not the same thing as Whole-Plot Reference, so I think we have three distinct tropes here. Just as we should.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Uh... my mom, I think? I dunno. She coulda been wrong.

The formula is virtually identical, though, with the "wisecracking eldest son" replaced by Astro and the youngest being a boy instead of a girl.

edited 20th Aug '12 1:11:31 PM by Escher

Could we keep Recycled In Space but restrict it to that particular one, since it is the single most common, and create a supertrope "Recycled In" for anything else?

A blog that gets updated on a geological timescale.

We could, but it seems slightly pointless. The trope is essentially the same whether or not space is involved. If the page gets overcrowded or something we could split it, but it's still one trope with unlimited "variations" in the new setting. The use of the word "space" in the name isn't particularly misleading (unless a wick check demonstrates otherwise) and it's no more non-indicative than many other tropes.

Changes I think are worth making:

Clarify in the description that this is distinct from, and can overlap with, Whole-Plot Reference.

Rewrite the whole paragraph about how Eragon doesn't fit to explain the real reason: "Eragon was better when it was called Star Wars" is not an example because neither of those is a setting. Eragon might be Star Wars Recycled In a Standard Fantasy Setting, though. (I dunno—I haven't read or seen it.)

Put it on the Settings index.

Take it off The Dark Age Of Animation index. (why is it even there?)

Aside from that, I'm not seeing much of anything that needs to be changed.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

As the confusion about The Jetsons above hints, remove the "advertises the similarities" bit is risky. It is currently an objective trope, after all.

Why is X Meets Y a Just for Fun trope, when this isn't?

What is the difference between Recycled In Space and X Meets Y? We need to define that more clearly. I'm not sure I see it.

Is it just "Recycled In Space is X Meets Y where X is a specific franchise and Y is a setting?"

Now, the most important question, I think — does it have to be an intentional reference to that franchise? If Recycled In Space is just going to be a place where Tropers can say "hey, this looks like my favorite show, but in another setting!", it should probably be a Just for Fun page like X Meets Y.

Yes, this trope has to be intentional. That distinguishes it from X Meets Y.

edited 7th Sep '12 10:52:18 AM by Routerie

Agreed, though "advertised" might still be too strict a requirement. Word of God should probably count, and possibly scene-for-scene copying, or blatant references, as with Lost in Space.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

What if the work is advertised like the trope? Must be by the network, not a fan.

Bump.

Starting to think the examples are part in[universe, part intended by the creators, and mostly Fridge Logic examples. The latter should be cut. What to do?

Clocking.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

I move to close this thread. There is no clear indication of a problem that needs fixing, plus X Meets Y is a Just for Fun page.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

But Recycled In Space is not.

Which is why we can't merge them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

There's still the issues I raised in post #37. Most of which is about clarifying things, but we need to be sure that none of the clarifications change the definition, or if they do, that we have consensus about the changes.

eta: My first suggestion there, "Clarify in the description that this is distinct from, and can overlap with, Whole-Plot Reference" is close enough to being an actual change that I think it's worth keeping in TRS. That is, it's a change to the current definition, even if it's not (I believe) a change to the intended definition. If we can agree on (or reject) that point, I think everything else can be handled without TRS.

edited 14th Dec '12 4:04:24 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Could you please write out a draft of your suggested change for us to discuss? Otherwise, I think we can close this or bump it over to the Trope Description improvement thread.

edited 29th Jan '13 10:42:13 AM by Catbert