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Unclear Description: The Heavy
Deadlock Clock: 14th Aug '13 11:59 PM
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Unclear Description: The Heavy get usage counts

 126 Waxing Name, Sun, 5th May '13 4:38:26 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
[up]Have you voted on the crowner? If you're unable to (due to the fairly recent DDoS, then that's fine.
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 127 Spark 9, Sun, 5th May '13 6:31:03 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up][up][up] I also agree.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 128 Waxing Name, Sun, 5th May '13 7:26:14 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
2:1 ratio currently. We still need a lot more votes before we move to merge.
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 129 Serocco, Sun, 5th May '13 7:39:55 PM from Miami, Florida
Serocco
I have voted on it. It's at +4, with seven yays and three nays total.
Men aren't men without women.
 130 Waxing Name, Sun, 5th May '13 8:00:41 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
Just to clarify, if we merge, will The Villain Makes the Plot disappear and The Heavy (or Plot Driving Villain) remain, or will The Heavy disappear and The Villain Makes the Plot remain?
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The former.

 132 Waxing Name, Sun, 5th May '13 10:04:50 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
[up]Cool, that's the option I support.
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 133 Waxing Name, Mon, 6th May '13 9:24:31 AM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
Crowner reminder.
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 134 Waxing Name, Mon, 6th May '13 10:38:42 AM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
We're almost there. Just a little more.
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I know I'm late to the discussion but I skimmed over this thread and didn't really see this being brought up. But I think the concept of what "The Heavy" means as a real world term has been misunderstood.

For one, the term is a little more meta than what is being discussed as it is used by actors regarding playing the role of the villain. "Playing the heavy" means "are you ready for people to hate you for being the bad guy."

As a trope the closest analog I can think of is that some stories require someone to play the bad guy (or at least Devils Advocate) but they don't have to be the driving villain of the entire story. They offer the necessary conflict to get the story going but the story isn't about defeating the villain. For example all three Toy Story films have characters who offer the danger and immediate conflict (Sid, Stinky Pete and Lotso) but the real threat (replaced by a newer toy, fear of being discarded when broken, no longer being played with) is something they don't have much to do with.

Now they certainly CAN be the driving villain of the plot as it is an open-ended term but the point is that they personify the conflict more than being responsible for it.

 136 Waxing Name, Mon, 6th May '13 12:28:57 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
[up]Which adds to the reasons why the trope is going to be renamed.
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 137 shimaspawn, Mon, 6th May '13 4:53:00 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Keep in mind, the crowners are still malfuctioning to a degree. Not everyone can vote on them and it often gives false positives thinking you've voted already. Do not take the crowner as definitive. It's just a vague idea. The conversation in the thread counts more.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
^^ To me that asks the question of what came first, the name or the trope. Because I think in all practical sense "villain who drives the plot" is effectively covered by the Big Bad, or at the least is a subtrope based on the description of the big bad. On the other hand the actual definition of The Heavy (a person who is the tangible villain in the story, regardless if they are driving it) was ignored in favor of an inaccurate definition.

So to me this sounds like the classic story of Epic Fail having what is now the Missed Moment of Awesome definition, it's a trope split and fix assuming we really need the current definition.

 139 Waxing Name, Mon, 6th May '13 9:16:29 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
[up]The trope has always been there, it's just that the current name "The Heavy" can be used for a lot of other definitions that we've already agreed to replace it with an Exactly What It Says on the Tin name.
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 140 Waxing Name, Tue, 7th May '13 7:38:00 AM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
Looks like we have sufficient consensus. Shall we commence with merging?
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 141 Serocco, Tue, 7th May '13 10:03:12 PM from Miami, Florida
Serocco
Yes, merge.
Men aren't men without women.
 142 Waxing Name, Tue, 7th May '13 10:21:08 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
Will do, and will also go through with the rename as agreed upon.

Wick cleanup will all that will be left to do.
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 143 Waxing Name, Tue, 7th May '13 10:34:02 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
Stuff I've done: (All the simplest stuff, pretty much)

  • The trope has been renamed.
  • Redirects from the previous page and the former The Villain Makes the Plot have been made.
  • Almost all references to the word "heavy" have been removed from the page.
  • I've reindexed the renamed and merged trope.

Stuff left to do:

Remember to use Ctrl+F to make life easier.
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Slow down. Seven votes is not a consensus. It is seven people out of thousands. The term Heavy has been around a very long time, by the way. If the use is varied, let the definition in the article reflect that.

edited 8th May '13 12:51:31 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
 145 Septimus Heap, Wed, 8th May '13 1:00:04 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Seven votes? I am seeing 11 vs. 4, not 7.

 146 Deadbeatloser 22, Wed, 8th May '13 2:36:03 AM from A cat basket over there. Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
The Butterfly on your Shoulder.
It's an overall score of +7.
I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it. - Bill Gates
 147 Septimus Heap, Wed, 8th May '13 2:39:59 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Yes, but that is not 7 out of thousands. More like 11 out of 15.

 148 Spark 9, Wed, 8th May '13 4:26:10 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Eddie, those votes are to merge another article INTO The Heavy. Whether The Heavy in and of itself should be renamed is another matter.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 149 Septimus Heap, Wed, 8th May '13 4:33:27 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Waxing did merge The Heavy, though.

 150 Waxing Name, Wed, 8th May '13 2:21:59 PM from Storm's End
Ours is the Fury!
I thought we already agreed that we would rename The Heavy. We had that crowner from a long time back. Also, the newest crowner clearly says: "The Heavy is about to be renamed with the most popular name Plot Driving Villain."

Does this mean we'll have to re-crowner renaming again? That would be aggravating.

Also, I'm with Septimus. It's not about the large green score, it's about the ratio of up to down. I thought the crowner policy page made it clear that a choice needs about 15 votes with at least a 2:1 ratio for stuff like this. Now I'm getting confused.

edited 8th May '13 2:24:56 PM by WaxingName

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Single Proposition: The Heavy 2
1st May '13 3:44:05 PM
Vote up for yes, down for no.
At issue:
Total posts: 187
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