Gentleman Troper!
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I also agree.
2:1 ratio currently. We still need a lot more votes before we move to merge.
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Serocco
I have voted on it. It's at +4, with seven yays and three nays total.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Just to clarify, if we merge, will The Villain Makes the Plot disappear and The Heavy (or Plot Driving Villain) remain, or will The Heavy disappear and The Villain Makes the Plot remain?
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The former.
Cool, that's the option I support.
We're almost there. Just a little more.
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I know I'm late to the discussion but I skimmed over this thread and didn't really see this being brought up. But I think the concept of what "The Heavy" means as a real world term has been misunderstood.
For one, the term is a little more meta than what is being discussed as it is used by actors regarding playing the role of the villain. "Playing the heavy" means "are you ready for people to hate you for being the bad guy."
As a trope the closest analog I can think of is that some stories require someone to play the bad guy (or at least Devils Advocate) but they don't have to be the driving villain of the entire story. They offer the necessary conflict to get the story going but the story isn't about defeating the villain. For example all three Toy Story films have characters who offer the danger and immediate conflict (Sid, Stinky Pete and Lotso) but the real threat (replaced by a newer toy, fear of being discarded when broken, no longer being played with) is something they don't have much to do with.
Now they certainly CAN be the driving villain of the plot as it is an open-ended term but the point is that they personify the conflict more than being responsible for it.
Which adds to the reasons why the trope is going to be renamed.
Keep in mind, the crowners are still malfuctioning to a degree. Not everyone can vote on them and it often gives false positives thinking you've voted already. Do not take the crowner as definitive. It's just a vague idea. The conversation in the thread counts more.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
^^ To me that asks the question of what came first, the name or the trope. Because I think in all practical sense "villain who drives the plot" is effectively covered by the Big Bad, or at the least is a subtrope based on the description of the big bad. On the other hand the actual definition of The Heavy (a person who is the tangible villain in the story, regardless if they are driving it) was ignored in favor of an inaccurate definition.
So to me this sounds like the classic story of Epic Fail having what is now the Missed Moment of Awesome definition, it's a trope split and fix assuming we really need the current definition.
The trope has always been there, it's just that the current name "The Heavy" can be used for a lot of other definitions that we've already agreed to replace it with an Exactly What It Says on the Tin name.
Looks like we have sufficient consensus. Shall we commence with merging?
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Serocco
Yes, merge.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Will do, and will also go through with the rename as agreed upon.
Wick cleanup will all that will be left to do.
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Stuff I've done: (All the simplest stuff, pretty much)
- The trope has been renamed.
- Redirects from the previous page and the former The Villain Makes the Plot have been made.
- Almost all references to the word "heavy" have been removed from the page.
- I've reindexed the renamed and merged trope.
Stuff left to do:
- Rewrite the description to incorporate the old The Villain Makes the Plot.
- Wick cleaning:
- The Heavy has 367 wicks as of this writing
- The Villain Makes the Plot has 112 wicks as of this writing.
Remember to use Ctrl+F to make life easier.
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Slow down. Seven votes is not a consensus. It is seven people out of thousands. The term Heavy has been around a very long time, by the way. If the use is varied, let the definition in the article reflect that.
edited 8th May '13 12:51:31 AM by FastEddie
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Seven votes? I am seeing 11 vs. 4, not 7.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It's an overall score of +7.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Yes, but that is not 7 out of thousands. More like 11 out of 15.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Gentleman Troper!
Waxing did merge The Heavy, though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I thought we already agreed that we would rename The Heavy. We had that crowner
from a long time back. Also, the newest crowner clearly says: "The Heavy is about to be renamed with the most popular name Plot Driving Villain."
Does this mean we'll have to re-crowner renaming again? That would be aggravating.
Also, I'm with Septimus. It's not about the large green score, it's about the ratio of up to down. I thought the crowner policy page made it clear that a choice needs about 15 votes with at least a 2:1 ratio for stuff like this. Now I'm getting confused.
edited 8th May '13 2:24:56 PM by WaxingName
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