Magic: The Gathering (Unreleased Sets)

I'd call Kozilek the least interesting of the three, myself.

The only thing that makes him noticed is his inquisition...

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.

To be fair, prior to Rise, we didn't expect it.

Idk, I really like Kozilek. I'm not that fond of his art, though. It doesn't show off his arm-eye things very well.

edited 18th Aug '15 11:44:17 AM by ImperialSunlight

''The eternal question of reality, it still stands today.''

And he wasn't Black. Like, at all.

That's rare in Magic. It happens, don't get me wrong, but non-Black main villains are definitely not common.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Of the three current main villains, only Bolas is primarily Black; the Eldrazi are colorless and New Phyrexia is currently dominated by Elesh Norn, the leader of the White Phryexian faction.

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in.

I think Heliod was supposed to be a major villain for Theros, he was mono-white.

The villains of Jace's origin doesn't have any black on his card, though he's arguably black in his motives and behavior.

It's harder to judge on the villain of Chandra's origin, but I don't think there was any black involved there (I'm guessing they were white to the extreme bad end).

For all the complaints people make about their not being enough villains in Magic who aren't black, I think they're honestly just not looking hard enough.

The villain in Kaladesh is UW.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:52:11 PM by entropy13

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.

Apparently the new Uncharted Realms (accidentally?) spoiled a few of BFZ's card names, including a very likely planeswalker card: Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Others: Gruesome Slaughter, Gideon's Reproach, Conduit of Ruin, Spawning Bed, Painful Truths.

edited 19th Aug '15 8:59:33 AM by MrShine

Sweet! How'd you get that?

When it was first posted, the images had labels in their place instead. Two of them were generic ("Blood interstitial", "Blood" being the codename for the set), the others roughly correspond to possible card names using those particular images/art.

edited 19th Aug '15 10:59:02 AM by entropy13

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.

[starts contemplating trying to sort all the planeswalkers into major and minor heroes and villains by colour to see what the distributions look like]

I don't actually find the Eldrazi plotline very compelling, but I don't really want Zendikar destroyed. Partly because surreal planes are cool, partly because not having nice things is Elspeth's gimmick and Nissa can't have it. >:(

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

Maybe Elspeth left it to her in her will, and when she comes back there's going to be a brief fight over it until both of them realise they don't actually want it.

The Eldrazi plot is pretty stock right now. I think the things that could make it interesting - the questions about the Eldrazi themselves, their place in the multiverse and why they come to eat up planes - aren't getting a lot of play. Right now they're basically Old School Phyrexia Again, and I want more emphasis on the things that set them apart.

Writers really need to realise that "they're going to destroy everything" does not magically turn into a compelling villain goal just by giving them tentacles. :P

That "where are they now" update on the Planeswalkers was conveniently timed. :P Impressionistic categorisations, I can elaborate on my guidelines as needed, etc. I stuck multicoloured characters into the colour that I think defines them more strongly.

Character	major/minor	hero/neutral/villain
White
Ajani	major	hero
Elspeth	major	hero
Gideon	major	hero
Nahiri	major	hero
(Avacyn)	major	hero
(Elesh Norn)	major	villain
(Heliod)	major	villain
Blue
Jace	major	hero
Kiora	minor	hero
Narset	minor	hero
Ral	minor	hero
Tamiyo	minor	neutral
Tezzeret	minor?	villain
(Jin-Gitaxias)	minor	villain
(Teferi)	major	hero
(Venser)	major	hero
Black
Ashiok	minor	villain
Liliana	major	neutral
Nicol Bolas	major	villain
Sorin	major	hero
Vraska	minor	villain
(Ob Nixilis)	minor	villain
Red
Chandra	major	hero
Dack	minor	hero
Daretti	minor	neutral?
Koth	minor	hero
Sarkhan	major	neutral
Tibalt	minor	villain
Green
Domri	minor	neutral?
Garruk	minor	villain
Nissa	major	hero
Xenagos	minor	villain
(Glissa)	minor	villain
Colourless
Karn	major	hero
Ugin	major	hero
(Eldrazi)	major	villain

edited 20th Aug '15 8:36:52 AM by Noaqiyeum

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

Would you count Vorinclex and Jin-Gitaxis as being worth parenthetical notes as supporting villains?

How does Ajani rank as "Minor"?

Also, I find myself wanting to see a showdown between Gideon and Garruk. A large part of it may have to do with believing that if it actually happened, Gideon could totally kick Garruk's butt.

I don't remember Vorinclex actually doing anything as Praetor... Jin-Gitaxias I'd add as a minor villain. I was thinking of Phyrexia as mostly unified under Norn moving forward, though.

Ajani just seems more like a supporting hero to me? :/ He hasn't been a driving character that I can remember since I've been around, he doesn't have a... heartplane, for lack of a better word? (Like, Jace is the Guildpact, Nissa is the voice of Zendikar, Ugin is the life of the Tarkir dracosystem, Nahiri was the centre of the hedron network... there has to be a good word for that.) I actually didn't remember him being among the Lorwyn Five until I checked just now, so that's a point in his favour.

(I have no idea what they're going to do with Garruk now. The only remotely interesting thing I can think of is that Liliana convinces him to help her kill demons because they're harder to kill than she is.)

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

Maybe he'll kill a villainous planeswalker down the line, or get worfed by one.

EDIT: You're right about Vorinclex. Glissa is more active. I was just thinking that since the idea is to get the color balance of the major villains, Phyrexia being WUG would be important to capture.

edited 20th Aug '15 1:26:47 AM by Durazno

Ajani is probably the most significant planeswalker from Alara. And not officially being the Big Good of a plane doesn't really have much to do with whether someone is a major character, especially in a story about planar travelers, where being tied down to a single plane probably means being put on the bus. Especially in the case of Nahiri, who has only ever been in two stories, both of which are backstory. I guess the question is whether we're talking about "most powerful and/or significant characters in-universe" or "most prominent characters narratively", which seems a bit unclear.

He also fought with Nicol Bolas and lived. More than could be said for Ugin.

edited 20th Aug '15 8:17:20 AM by ImperialSunlight

''The eternal question of reality, it still stands today.''

To be fair, the only other Planeswalker we know who is from Alara is Tezzeret, so "the more significant one out of two guys" is not really saying much.

edited 20th Aug '15 8:21:56 AM by LeChuck4

Ajani's out of focus. He was the main character back on Alara, but he's just sort of drifted about since then. His most prominent role since was being Elspeth's sidekick on Theros, which is still noteworthy.

So, yeah, I would agree that he hasn't been spotlighted in a while, but he's not a minor character by any measure.

Nobody stays the Main Character forever. Each block has a different set of protagonists chosen from their Ensemble Cast. It's been Magic's thing since we left Dominaria. Even on Dominaria, it happened often enough outside the Weatherlight Saga.

edited 20th Aug '15 8:54:37 AM by TobiasDrake

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He may be focused on WG now, but he's shifted across three-fifth of the color pie, which put him a step up above most the rest of the current Planeswalking community.

It may be for mechanical reasons as much as flavor reasons, but the bulk of the current crop is in one or two colors. The major exceptions being Sarkhan and Bolas who have both succeeded at three at once (with Sarkhan accomplishing a fourth), and Ugin has basically transcended color. (I'm not counting Narset because the current version hasn't accessed red - yet).

But Ajani's made pretty good headway into being part of a pretty elite group. I think there was also a comment made surrounding his latest Planeswalker card which had the ability to add loyalty tokens to other Planeswalkers and the idea of him turning into an 'Elder Statesman of Planeswalkers' of sorts.

As far as I'm concerned with regards to this chart, being out-of-focus does make you "minor". I'd be happy for him to become a major character again - and the "statesman planeswalker" would be a good way for it to happen - but being a driving player in one block's narrative years ago doesn't mean he's still currently important. I considered Ajani minor for basically the same reasons as I do Garruk. (By contrast, Elesh Norn and Nahiri escape by virtue of foreshadowing. If Phyrexia weren't a known former and hinted future threat to the Multiverse, Norn would just be some villain who conquered a plane. Nahiri has barely done anything, but she is driving a major plotline through her absence, which has been noted as a Big Deal by two pretty authoritative characters.) I've edited the chart because clearly this is not the general opinion, but I'm still not really convinced.

(...I'll also acknowledge I've appraised Avacyn inconsistently in this regard and I probably have a bias. <_< )

That seems plausible on its face, but in practice I think that the opposite is true. All the characters I mentioned are ensorcelled with their respective planes such that not only are they able to planeswalk freely^note Nahiri being the odd former exception that will become entirely irrelevant as soon as Zendikar is either saved or destroyed, but they provide them with additional reasons and motivations to become involved in major plotlines. Jace even became the Guildpact essentially as an indicator that he'll keep being an important character for the foreseeable future.

So far those actually cohere pretty well, but in the event of doubt, the latter.

Yes, clearly, but the point of this exercise was to see if there are characters (and therefore colours) in the ensemble who are used more, or more in certain roles, than others. Whether Ajani is major or minor doesn't actually make a difference here, really, because White is clearly a colour abundant with heroic planeswalkers either way.

edited 20th Aug '15 12:15:31 PM by Noaqiyeum

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

One thing Noaqiyeum's table makes clear is that there is a villain shortage. I guess they tried to create a new villain in M15 with Garruk but that seems to have been met with mostly disinterest.

Conclusion: shouldn't have killed off Xenagos so soon.