Needs Help: Unexpectedly Obscure Answer

Unexpectedly Obscure Answer. I created it but I'm not sure on what to do with it. It seems to be two tropes in one: 1.) real-life game show answers perceived as hard, and 2.) mega-obscure answers played for laughs in fiction.

I just read the first as a straight example, and the second as a parody of it. It may not be a parody of this trope specifically, but it ends up being this trope.

Seems like the same trope.

edited 23rd Jun '12 3:04:08 PM by Feather7603

The game show examples all come across as "This question was too hard", which I don't think is something we want to be troping. I would zap them; that's just nattery garbage.

Bump.

There are 3 sub-types I see with this trope:

• 1. Harder questions the farther you progress in the game, ending up at this trope
• 2. Harder question that it should be at that point of the game
• 3. "I don't know the answer, and how can anyone know that" Might be DNDTR

Also, filter out anything where contestants were Ditzes.

edited 29th Jun '12 10:47:50 PM by spacemarine50

Rebump.

I agree with the OP. Furthermore, "this quiz had an answer that I found hard" is really subjective.

The page quote (from Monty Python And The Holy Grail) seems to be a legit trope: Alice asks Bob a series of questions, one of which is much harder for Bob and/or in a different category than the others. The Joker example (in-universe game show contestants thrown a bunch of questions which are much harder than is typical for that game show) also seems legit.

I'd support a restriction to in-universe, i.e. nuke all the game show stuff.

Bump. Are we gonna do something here?

I think we should define this as in-universe only, where a quiz has ridiculously difficult questions as a joke. Frankly, the list of real-life quiz shows that some user thought were hard is not a trope; we could list every single quiz show on such a list.

So are we gonna discuss this trope into changing itself, or what?

Well, I suppose we need consensus first to change a trope around, so we'd need some more people agreeing in here, or a crowner on the subject.

Hello? Anyone here?

Bump. I think this has gone stale.

Then make a crowner instead of expecting someone else to do anything. If you want something to move, move it by adding something of value, not just bumps.

Legitimate trope, solid definition, some bad examples. Solution: scrap bad examples. Seems straightforward enough. All in favor?

Should we agree on what are the bad examples?

Haven't checked the page yet, but normally, bad example = does not fit the definition. Seems easy enough.

I figure we can pretty much agree on [1]. Hopefully.

* assents*

Edit: In fact, we should write up a better definition first. It's fairly game show specific right now.

edited 11th Aug '12 12:06:32 PM by jkbeta

So what would be the best plan here? Rewrite it as "Impossibly difficult question used as a joke"? That seems to be the way things are leaning here.

There's no dissent, so should I just gut this to only the in-universe examples?

Partial Dissent concerning instances where the Trope is Invoked to create a desired result:

• The Double Dare (1986) entry claims that the Trope is used to cause a team on a roll to call for a Physical Challenge.
• The Mario Party example utilizes this Trope to enforce the Luck Based nature of the game.

In effect, I'm arguing that if a work invokes the Trope on purpose to achieve a desired effect, then the example should stay. If the Trope is experienced by accident, then the example should be removed.

Heck, it could be said that Unwinnable by Design is the Videogame Equivalent.

edited 3rd Dec '12 9:43:05 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Those seem like acceptable examples for this trope too. So should I trim it to in-universe and invocations only?

edited 4th Dec '12 12:12:21 AM by Twentington

Full disclosure: The Mario Party item in my post was basically a synthesis based on the nature of the series. (Essentially, I asked "Why would a game utilize a quiz with such off the wall questions?").

So the current Mario Party example needs to be rewritten to reflect this.

But, yes. Remove the examples like Jeopardy and Wheel that are honestly unexpected. Then put in a notice like this:

Examples should be limited to In-Universe examples and where this is deliberately Invoked for a desired effect. If it seems like the writers honestly thought that the question was answerable by the contestants, then it shouldn't be here. If the series seems to have an ulterior motive (directly relating to a gimmick of the show) for providing these sort of questions, then it belongs.

EDIT: Actually, the Mario Party example seems more like an Unwinnable Joke Game than Unwinnable by Design. So that example is now questionable.

EDIT 2: Some changes made. Also, Invoked examples are on the bottom. I removed the obvious Unwinnable by Mistake ones.

EDIT 3: Finally found a place for your "Real-life game show answers perceived as hard": Moon Logic Puzzle. Also paired that Trope with This one on the In-Universe page.

edited 4th Dec '12 9:54:19 AM by DonaldthePotholer