Sexism and Men's Issues

Actually men in places like childcare get extremes.

They are derided only so long as they want to stay in their position.

Men in feminine jobs are promoted way more often.

With the caveat that some things will have to be lost that should never have been had in the first place.

The ultimate goal is for everyone to have an equal share of the pie. However, increasing the shares that people who have less than what's fair are allotted requires taking some pie away from people who have more. This is an inevitable consequence of any rights movement.

When women gained the right to vote, men's votes became worth half as much. When women gained the right to work, men's competition for jobs was doubled. When having sex with your wife without her consent was classified as rape and not just a marital responsibility, husbands lost the expectation of sex whenever they damned well felt like having it.

For every right that women gain, men lose a privilege. This is natural; when slavery was abolished, land owners lost their cheap, reliable workforce. It's like that with every civil rights success, and it is necessary. The important thing is to understand the difference between losing something you actually should have, and something you never should have had.

That's where hate groups go awry. They see those losses as an attack on their group, and try too hard to cling to privileges that nobody should ever have a right to.

edited 21st May '15 8:15:09 AM by TobiasDrake

Or put differently, loss is not equal to defeat.

no surprising, just look a this: http://politicalblindspot.com/study-finds-white-americans-believe-they-experience-more-racism-than-african-americans/

Now look in the end of the article when it said: "Caucasians, the study found, often believe that racial equality is “a zero sum game,” where one group gains at the expense of others."

Pretty much, for them is not much "black have gain indepence and demand to see as a person" but more "white find out how awfull they are so they soften off" which is indulgent, to said the least

See, I like the term "Masculist" as it's a Gender Flip of Feminist/Feminism. But even that's used by Av FM type MRA's. Instead I'll use some term like "Male-Focused Feminist" since it makes clear I've no beef with Feminism, I just happen to focus on male issues, like how some are Feminist but focus on a specific kind of women, as well as women in general: Third-World Feminism, Trans Feminism, etc. And really, when most people hear "Feminist", they don't tend to think "fighting for women's issues", they think "battling sexism". At least that's the impression I get. Also, MFF as an acronym is the same as a kind of threesome ;).

Related to the men working in child care- I don't hide the fact that I want to be a father, I've wanted to since I was 11 or 12. I'll happily talk about names I've picked, having fun dressing them up, having a routine with feeding/cleaning them, etc. Some people find that odd. Even my mum and sis find it odd, and they have loads of kids (5 each-five's a lot in the UK). Even worse, some people seem disturbed by my excitement about fatherhood. The way they look at me you'd think I'd talked about molesting the kids or something :P. Any men here really wanting to be fathers one day? I can't be the only one...

I am. I want to be a father, it is one of the few reasons why I put up with the crap I get from college in hope to get a decent paying job to afford having a family.

It's never been a massive thing for me, I already have some of that stuff with a friend of mine, that feeling of watching them grow and knowing that you helped make that, the feeling of watching them find partners and go to them for help and not need their "old man" anymore, in the end already having someone I may well give away at their wedding one day means I'm getting a lot of that as is.

However it's become more of a thing since I got with my girlfriend, I never used to have a wife or kids or a family in my random day dreams, but now I do, now I think about things and imagine try to teach a kid of mine stuff. I factor it all into my random day dreams, it's still kinda weird for me but I like it.

Technically, yes, that's all true when you're talking about, say, voting rights or entering the workplace.

However, I don't think gender issues, on the whole, should be framed as a zero-sum game.

For instance, I want female-on-male abuse to be taken as seriously as male-on-female abuse. If that happens, then women will lose the freedom to hit their boyfriends without consequences.

I mean, it's not incorrect, but I think framing it that way sounds a little vindictive, and, to be honest, misogynistic.

And there are some instances where it's not a zero-sum game at all. Acknowledging that boys can have body image issues isn't going to take anything away from girls with anorexia or bulimia or what have you. A post on Tumblr encouraging male positivity isn't taking anything from female positivity (though that didn't stop, ahem, certain people from treating it that way).

The mention of male body issues makes me think of this.

Well I did use to think men weren't supposed to have body hair aside head and facial hair.

We talked about that recently in one thread or another, didn't we? It wasn't here, but one of the other sexism threads. (Of course, "body hair is gross" is far from an exclusively male thing.)

The body is kinda valid though, we never do seem to talk about the unrealistic expectations that are put on men for body image.

Thing is, we never talk about it. The problem isn't people who talk about other things, the problem is that we the people who should be pushing this issue spend so much time sitting on our hands when it comes to it.

The thing is, I've talked with my friends about male body expectations. "I should start working out" was usually the conclusion. Even though it is only a few that can get the He-Man or Gears of War muscle body build, hardly none of my friends were sightly bothered by them.

If more than anything, it was a model they strive for but know they can't achieve but working out to approach it was its own reward, or at least adopting a life style that didn't allow them to get fat by getting a healthier diet or stop being sedentary.

The male body issue I did see a few friends being really upset with is height, which is something they can't control and feel like they are disadvantaged specially when seeking for a partner, since more often than not they see statements from women who won't date a short guy or someone just as high as her.

Yeah that's the weird thing. There are HUGE issues for the male body type, and it has to do with height, not with the bulky muscles, but few people seem to be as interested in talking about, preferring to do equalizing instead.

Like I think statistically tall men are more likely to be ceos, be successful, etc, whereas height has no impact on women.

It feels me with hatred, those who would deny me my birthright because they are taller.

And yes, I was the one who said that having body hair, (of which I have lots) makes me "gross" in the eyes of female peers and family members.

Looks like I counter those statistics, then. Then again, I'm not muscled, so there's that.

I don't feel too much concerned with body image nowadays, but I know I had those issues when I was in high school. I've somehow managed to counter them (by focusing more on stuff like music, movies and literature - those are some of my passions nowadays).

(I might delete the content of this post, later)

edited 23rd May '15 8:07:10 PM by Quag15

My body issue for a long time was a lack of bulk. So my college and post-college years were spent bulking up. Sadly, I have trouble telling just how much pain I'm in, so I'd often hurt myself in pursuit of the "perfect Hulk body" that I didn't even really want. Dropping a dumbbell from exhaustion onto your scrotum is a definite deterrent XD. I've only recently decided "fuck it" and decided to simply stay healthy- bit of muscle, bit of fat, stay active.

As for height- short dudes should be glad they don't get a lot of back problems compared to taller dudes. Me, dad and bros (including my older half bro) are all tall, and we all have back problems, especially lower back, and knee problems. Although my particular knee grief is due to being born 2 or 3 months early. According to mumma at least. Not that short dude problems are inconsequential, just that they should look on the plus side.

I had both height and muscle issues around the time I was 14-15. I was desperate to be tall and hated being short, especially when it came to stuff like the girl I liked saying she'd never date a guy shorter than her. The strength stuff was similar, I wanted something, anything to make me cool, I considered trying skateboarding but settled on trying to get muscles. I was so embarrassed and ashamed of it though, I'd sneak out to the school gym at night and try and work out, eventually I nicked a few things from there and hid them in my room, I wanted to get 'tough' but nobody could know as that would mean admitting that I was weak.

I remember the time I went to the pool with my fifth grade class. Around that time I was developing gynecomastia (boy tits, basically), and I was teased mercilessly for them. I was pretty much the class Butt-Monkey so that was business as usual, but Jesus. I didn't want to go anywhere in public without my shirt on for years after that.

Further compounding the problem was the fact that I always sucked at sports. No matter how hard I tried, it would always end in me getting teased or yelled at. So I quit and decided to hone my skills in other areas instead (like writing: I've always loved that).

And I still got crap for it, whether it was from the kid at summer camp who called me a "baby" for choosing arts and crafts over landsports or the girl who looked at me like I had two heads when I told her I didn't play any sports.

And according to my friend, around my high school I was known as "the skinny kid who can't play basketball to save his life". Nice, huh?

In regards to height, I think this came up before, but short guys seem to still be Acceptable Targets nowadays. To cite a◊ few◊ examples...◊

As I've recently learned, they're called "manlets◊" now, and I, at the height of 5'10, am their king.

edited 18th Jun '15 1:30:57 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

Ah, the enlightened and intelligent Facebook, Twitter and Tumblr stuff.

Oh, I don't deny that they're morons. The problem is that they're morons with hundreds to thousands of followers each. Sometimes I feel like the last one alive at the end of a zombie movie.

Besides, at least a couple of examples were from news stories about kids who killed themselves because of height-related bullying at school, so it's not all from the social media front...

edited 24th May '15 1:34:31 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

Consider suicide if you're 5'10, the avarage world male height.

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

Hundreds to thousands of followers? That's...actually not that much.

For people holding such positions, thousands of followers is way too much.

Tens is way to much.

I've had other body issues, long hair doesn't go down well with a lot of folks, plus I've got a birth defect of an indented chest (mild pectus excavatum), so I never lied going swimming because I'd get mocked for that badly.