MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
Jupiterian Local
Honestly, this attitude is why the idea Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil annoys me — you end up with the concept that certain things aren't "bad enough" to be rape, which is ridiculous.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
edited 23rd Apr '15 12:50:20 PM by Uchuujinsan
Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/
Jupiterian Local
Are we really having a conversation about "legitimate rape" at this point? It's not "really" rape unless violence is involved? Fuck that noise. Assault and battery laws already cover violence plenty well. Rape is sex without consent, there doesn't need to be a distinction drawn between "violent rape" and "non-violent rape". If someone kicks in your door, threatens you, attacks you when you resist, and then rapes you, they're guilty of breaking and entering, assault, battery, and rape, not just "violent rape".
You're suggesting that victims of "real" (ie, violent) rape are somehow being pushed out of their status as "real" rape victims by victims of "other" rape, like date rape or rape via fraud. That is, quite frankly, horseshit. As we've mentioned, a violent altercation leading to rape is virtually the only kind of rape a lot of people will recognize — and even then, sometimes people will go out of their way to dismiss it by blaming the victim for the crime committed against them (the standard "maybe you shouldn't have been wearing that" for women or "if you didn't want it then you wouldn't have gotten an erection" for men).
Is supporting rape victims something that needs to be done? Yes, absolutely. Can we do better at it than we do now? Yes, absolutely. Is the problem that "real" rape victims aren't getting the help they need because "other" kinds of rape are pushing them away? Not a chance in hell.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
edited 23rd Apr '15 12:50:10 PM by Uchuujinsan
Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/
Queen of Good Things, Honest
This was already linked in this thread or one of the other sexism threads, but it seems relevant right now. Consent: not that complicated
.
There are a lot of ways to coerce someone into drinking tea that they didn't want or ask for without holding them down and forcing it down their throat. Doing it violently may seem like a more severe crime, but that's because it totally is. Crimes stack. Committing a rape during an assault and battery is both rape and assault and battery, whereas committing rape by deception is rape but is not assault and battery.
In a violent rape, you prosecute both the violence and the rape.
edited 23rd Apr '15 12:02:24 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
You're really going to play the "nobody but me is allowed to discuss this issue" card?
Jupiterian Local
If someone was raped violently, then I'm genuinely sorry that they had to go through such a thing, but that still doesn't give them license to declare that other victims weren't really raped because their experience was different.
edited 23rd Apr '15 1:19:27 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
I made a mistake. Shouldn't have started it. Sorry. Please delete references to me in your last answers.
edited 23rd Apr '15 12:52:03 PM by Uchuujinsan
Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/
Nameless Hero
My ex and certain female family members would force me into intercourse. But since it wasn't violent I guess I'm not a victim of rape? Sarcasm aside, that kind of attitude is partly why I'm so numb to the experiences, or not as upset as I know I should be.
Also- my ex-girlfriend's husband has come out about the physical, sexual and emotional abuse he suffered. So, good for him, but also good for me cos a lot of friends who believed I abused her (I punched her once cos I knew she'd leave me and then make me out to be the abuser) and/or disbelieved me when I talked about her abuse now believe me since that's now two men who've spoken about her abusive nature. They can no longer say "Her? But she's such a lovely girl!". If she were butch, they'd probably have believed me sooner, lol.
Oh, and her husband doesn't have custody yet, but the boy's living with him and his parents. Good. Excuse the outburst.
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
A nice butterfly
Aw man. A morning talk show in my country was hosting a discussion titled "Where is the perfect man?"
I would have laughed so much watching it. Damn work.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
I thought the answer was obvious: dead, married or in bed with another man.
The best man, or woman for that matter, isn't hard to find. They are just kinda fuzzy
◊
edited 24th Apr '15 8:07:27 AM by Gabrael
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
I remember this one Hong Kong movie of a similar title that featured the logical extreme of the Extreme Doormat as the titular man... yeah, no wonder they don't exist.
edited 24th Apr '15 8:14:15 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Absolutely no relation to NLK
The best man is typically found next to the groom making bedroom eyes at the maid of honor.
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
What's the difference between sexism, (fe)male chauvinism, and misogyny/misandry?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
Sexism is the umbrella term for all others. Chauvinism is the belief that your group is the best while miso-something is the belief that a certain group is worse and less worthy of respect.
Unreasonably Quirky
Speaking of finding the perfect man, I just listened to a recent episode of the advice podcast If I Were You (which is a hilarious podcast that I suggest all of you start listening to) about a 6'1 girl who had trouble finding a date because of her height.
Listen to it here: the relevant part starts at 10:55 and ends around 17:00.
The hosts had trouble determining whether the problem was her being insecure about their height, or with men being insecure about their height. I thought I'd ask: has this problem ever come up in your daily lives? Do you think the stigma surrounding tall girls/ short guys is still a big problem?
edited 28th Apr '15 12:30:36 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest
I love to learn, I love to yearn, and most of all... I love to make money.
A nice butterfly
I have not had that experience personally, however I do know that manyother men feel inadequate when compared to women if they come up shorter. However and from what I see, this feelings are just that and do not translate to a lack of interest or abject fear.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
I do know a girl who's somewhere around 6'2, and all of her boyfriends that I've met have been around 6'5.
But individuals are individual, and you'll easily be able to find examples of girls mocking men for being short, and examples of short men being needlessly insecure about it, depending on where you look.
Unreasonably Quirky
Yeah, that's a thing that I recently found out about. Some of the tweets here are just disgusting.
Like I knew that there were girls who felt uncomfortable dating shorter guys (like the girl on the podcast), but to actually go out of your way to antagonize them... like, why? Why is this acceptable?
I love to learn, I love to yearn, and most of all... I love to make money.
it isn't acceptable. no one sane would allow any sort of harassment or bullying
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Um. This is a surprise? *confused* Even short women get this kind of thing a lot... just not quite as badly. Still, we get the whole "awww, the dear, sweet, little thing has an opinion: how cute, a regular Nepoleonetta!" thing. 
Short people tend to get put in the "useless child" box and told to just deal with it, you whiner. But, the blokes do get it worse. After all, Real Men aren't short.
edited 28th Apr '15 1:49:20 PM by Euodiachloris
And people still use the term Napoleon, even though he was of average height and simply surrounded himself with relatively tall guards.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You should tell them: "well, since you call me a Napoleonetta, then I will go Austerlitz on your ass!"
edited 28th Apr '15 1:49:53 PM by Quag15
Queen of Good Things, Honest
I thought women got it the other way? Harassed for being too tall?
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
edited 23rd Apr '15 12:50:30 PM by Uchuujinsan
Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/