Marvel's Avengers Assemble

Side Note of Awesome: Jim Cummings voice work as The Ghost, proving once again why he is the go to voice actor for villains.

@Targetmaster Joe:

That sounds a lot like Doomsaying. Besides, i remember people said Ultimate Spider-Man would end after season 2 and that obviously wasn't true.

There's also no solid evidence that the next season of AA will be the last and that just seems like speculation or maybe wishful thinking.

"Rejoicing" rather premature until there's anything official. And not everyone would be rejoicing, these shows do have their fans.

Yeah, Ghost was awesome in this episode. His powers seem to be stronger than the ones in the comic too.

edited 10th Aug '16 9:02:54 PM by Cortez

That sounds a lot like Doomsaying. Besides, i remember people said Ultimate Spider-Man would end after season 2 and that obviously wasn't true.

That's not even remotely the same situation. This was a case of And You Thought It Would Fail- the show was panned by many fans so they understandably expected it to fail, unfortunately not taking in account the younger audience. This time, it's one of the guys working on the show who let it slip that it was apparently gonna be the last season, so it might be actually true this time. Granted, we still have nothing official, so it's probably best to wait for a confirmation before rejoicing.

As for these shows having their fans, I am still looking for them. I met only three or five people at best who liked them here, and very few fanarts of any Marvel cartoons. And even if these shows do have their fans, well... USM would have had 4 seasons, AA 3 (possibly 4). I don't think they have the right to complain when much more deserving shows have lasted for 1 or 2 seasons at best.

New episode "The Conqueror."

So we get Kang the Conqueror in Avengers: Assemble: Ultron: Revolution.

Plus side, he's not a one-and-done like I feared. Which would be the exact shit this show would pull.

Minus side, Kang had no real plan, he only decides to conquer the 21st century because Tony blundered into the future while investigating how AIM has such advanced weapons. Also, the whole thing is just set up as a Tony Stark mid-life crisis. He feels old and obsolete because younger weapon designers had a better fiscal year and then Whiplash kicked his ass and then Kang makes him feel old and sad by being from the future and saying hurtful things. Seriously, why this? Tony even gets one over on Kang by commiserating with him. Y'know, one imminent washed-up has-been to another. Yeesh.

Looking on the bright side of things, at least Kang's reasons for taking over the 21st Century is more in line to his comic book counterpart reasons. Like the comics, this Kang wants to conquer the 21st Century due to him already conquered his time period and wants to live out the thrill of taking over another time period. Granted having him want to take over that period due to Tony Stark appearing before him comes off contrived and having him not already be a time traveling conqueror who did this before doesn't 100% fit his character (Evil of Ancient Egypt indeed), but it still fits in with his Hedonist personality.

But I do agree with you on that mid life crisis sub plot. What's with this season and playing off the Avengers as old heroes? They haven't really age all that much in between seasons and still look like they are still in their 20s (early 30s).

You know, it's kinda ironic that they are trying to make plots where Avengers are portrayed as "Has been" when the MCU is the most popular superhero franchise nowadays...

Maybe its leading up to the rumored cast shakeup next season.

Eh, I found his motivation in EMH to be more compelling. He's still an evil tyrant, but his motivation for interfering in the past was more interesting. Plus, having him be a foil to Captain America worked better than making him yet another one of Stark's nemeses.

At least Kang here has been blessed with the voice of Steve Blum.

edited 16th Aug '16 10:43:48 AM by GamerSlyRatchet

I agree. I was just noting a positive to this Kang's portrayal being more true to his original self in terms of motives.

I enjoy a Kang who have a justified reason for taking over the past, but I also enjoy a Kang who is just conquroring to quench his Blood Knight tendency and personal entertainment.

Into the Future was a waste and a mess.

It doesn't even feel like this follows up from the previous episode. There's such a disconnect. The story is suddenly about Captain America feeling bad about never stopping Hydra once and for all and thwarting Kang is how he scratches that itch.

Despite already having good enough time travel to bring a giant spaceship into the past, using the super duper arc reactor evidently gives him a better time travel device which he's not smart enough to key only to him.

The fight between Kang and Cap takes them to WWII and THE TIME OF DINOSAURS but its mostly just a ham-fisted ideological debate between them.

Kang does not come off as competent or effective at all. He apparently left all his weapons in the future and his only martial arts prowess seems to be flailing angrily at Cap.

The dystopian Kang future is all cyberpunk instead of wasteland barbarian punk but is only loosely fleshed out. The rebels are patterned after the Avengers and led by an aging Thor but its all so wasted. We barely learn or spend time with any of them except Nu Future Black Widow girl. You could have gotten a whole episode out of these guys.

Kang foreshadows that he'll be back and use being stuck in the past to be a real dick.

But so far, these two episodes have been an absolutely piss poor use of Kang. This is why the show never manages to get beyond being annoyingly mediocre. Whenever it manages to do something good it immediately squanders any good faith its earned.

Hate to say but agree. This is pretty much the Baron Zemo Treatment all over again. The show give us a promising villain that presents a credible threat to the team, all just to soundly and anti climatically defeat the bad guy as though he wasn't such a big deal to begin with.

Goddamnit say what you want about season 1 on its slow pacing and hard to pin point tone, at least that season gave us credible bad guys who aren't defeated and forgotten upon after a couple of episodes.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is bugged out with Kang's inferior combat skills in the show when he is without his tech. Seriously, he conquered the even more chaotic 40th century with a laser gun, his extensive knowledge of warfare and his huge balls to pacify what is essentially Marvel's equivalent to a Warhammer 40k world. Fuck the whole reason Kang is such a dangerous villain is due to his knowledge/love for warfare throughout history and use of very advance technology to conquer many ages in time. Here, he could barely take on Cap in a one on one fight due to the lack of any future tech; which if you are a fan of Kurt Busiek run on the Avengers, you'll most likely be pissed that the guy who can fight the Captain in even footing one-on-one is taken out like a bitch in this show.

Speaking of said ideological battle. Groan! I might as well be watching Fairy Tail if I want to hear all this friendship bullshit. No seriously, Captain was talking about how comrades and being a part of a team will always win wars, and looks down on Kang for not having any allies of his own and rely on his tech. This is the exact opposite to another certain better show that did an episode theme on friendship, except that it works and ended up being compare favorably to that pony show.

Hopefully Kang will come back and do a recreation of the Kang Dynasty storyline and explain his defeats was due to him taking the Avengers too lightly. That could make me forgive the writers for this piss poor portrayal of the guy. But since this is Avengers Assemble, yeah they fucked him up.

edited 23rd Aug '16 3:29:54 PM by BigK1337

Well, now I am glad I didn't go watch these episodes. And that my introduction to Kang was in EMH, where he was frighteningly competent and could take on the entire team.

Personally I feel like they are trying to do too much stuff in this season at the same time instead of focusing on a specific baddie. All the villains they used so far could have used an entire season.

You're not wrong in that opinion as today's episodes involves Hydra, the second Black Widow and Winter Soldier.

Basically Hydra captures the Hulk to use as a weapon. Okay, so far so good; I can definitely see the terrorist doing something like that. The one who captured the Hulk is a second Black Widow who was trained by Strucker and eventually betray him by the climax. Wow, couldn't they like introduce her first then have her pull a Starscream in her next appearance. Christ all they went by is that she is a perfectionist who wants to be a better Black Widow. The overall goal led to them successfully converting the Hulk into a Winter Soldier which they can easily control. . . . . They jumped it. They leaped over fucking Jaws.

Why did I went against my better judgement and watch this episode? Especially after Kang where it is clear that this show is afraid of using anything that resembles a complex villains. Seriously, the second Black Widow comes off as a cartoonish villain instead of playing off as a complex personal villain for Black Widow to face given the whole story behind the Red Room. Christ all I can think of with this episode's main villain is the time David Xanatos takes a stab at performing cliche villainy when he trap Goliath in a James Bond like trap (god, why couldn't the villains be like the ones from Gargoyles).

Seriously the episode combines three plot elements that would of been better in seperate episodes except for that whole Winter Soldier Hulk thing, that is as dumb of a plan as making female teenage clones of Wolverine.

But hey, at least the chemistry between the Hulk and Black Widow is better in this show than the movie.

edited 28th Aug '16 10:09:21 PM by BigK1337

... Wow. Just wow. That sounds like a horrible mess of an episode. I mean, seriously, Winter Soldier Hulk?! What the heck?

You think that could be a sign that the show's on its last legs and the Secret Wars Season 4 will be the last season?

A Winter Soldier Hulk? I don't exactly hate the idea, but it does sound absurd, even by the standards of comic books. Guess I'm not really missing much, am I?

Erm, you do know that's currently a thing in the comics, right?

edited 29th Aug '16 5:33:04 AM by TargetmasterJoe

Technically, making your own Wolverines is a better idea than having your own Hulks. It means, it rarely works in comics either, but that's more of a plot convention thing. Even Sabretooth can pull successful professional jobs for his employers like half the time, and he's a freaking psycho. But gamma monsters are invariably a disaster waiting to happen.

Is that second Black Widow the same one from the comics, Yelena Whatsername?

edited 29th Aug '16 6:17:09 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

The problem with that Winter Soldier Hulk idea is that it completely misses the point of the Hulk, once again. I mean, for X-23 it wasn't all that stupid because Wolverine, for all his animalistic parts, is fairly close to a human; you could buy people conditioning him. But the Hulk's schtick, at least as far as I understand,is that he CANNOT be contained or controlled, at least not safely. Not even Banner can control it. How do you condition someone who can basically destroy any prison and get stronger the more you anger/hit him? There is a reason plots involving using the Hulk as a weapon are just about people throwing him in an area and hoping for the best.

It also misses the point of Winter Soldiers. Winter Soldiers function as super spies and assassins, crippling the enemy before being seen. Hulks have the subtlety of a, well giant multicolored monster.

... Pretty good point. Wow, it sounds even dumber to me than before now.

I'm guessing Bucky doesn't appear in the episode either.

Which brings me back to the point of this show wasting a lot of characters and plot points. Seriously, this was the perfect time to bring back that character as it involves him; and yet no mention of Bucky whatsoever.

@Taskmaster Joe Of course I know about X-23, why else would I randomly mention about people making a teenage female Wolverine. Plus that part where I talk about how dumb of an idea to make a clone of Wolverine came from the comics (I think it was Spider-Man who said it).

The reason I thought cloning Wolverine is dumb seeing how well the Weapon X project went. So they create this unstoppable killing machine who they had a hard time controlling and is filled with blind rage for anybody who looks at him funny. The take away from it? Try again by stealing the DNA of that weapon and make a teenage clone of the opposite sex; nevermind all the hormones, conflicting emotions and menstral period teenage girls go through and have them go through all of that torment, I sure she won't become an even more dangerous beast to control than the adult male you subject it to . . . she did became that and which leads to those two episodes in X-Men Evolution which shows off what a dangerous mistake they made.

And you know whats the even more retarded part, another group did that again only this time just make clones of X-23; and said clones became rebellious later on and become a thorne of that evil organization. Man you would think after all the dangerous disators the program created (Wolverine, X-23, Sabretooh, Dead-Freakin-Pool), people would be smart enough not to revive it due to how uncontrollable these creations are. But no, create more clones, I'm sure it won't backfire for the 37th time . . . ah, sweet sweet insanity.

Now to tie this whole thing with the episode, the Hulk is a character you can't control. He does whatever the fuck he wants, and if you try to mind control him it makes him angry. Very angry. Just ask Enchantress, he hates her fucking guts for tricking him into fighting the Avengers. And throughout all of his history as a character, it is clear that it is impossible for anybody to tame this monster; not even Bruce can make the monster listen to him. And this show manage to convert the Hulk into a Winter Soldier that obeys every command . . . bullshit. Given the Winter Soldier program being a long and psychologically painful process and the Hulk becoming stronger by any form of stress this should not work at all. Here's what really happen: Strucker and all of his subordinates gets their ass kicked as by the Hulk as putting the monster through such torture doesn't make him subservient, it only pisses him off.

It would of made sense if they just bombard their Winter Soldiers they have on deck with Gamma Radiation, that way they already have puppets to control who can double as a living stealth nuclear warhead (or Nightkins, for the Fallout players). Seriously, the order makes no sense:

1. Create Gamma Monster that can transform via emotion.

2. Convert Human into a Cold Unstoppable Assassin through a stressful torture

3. ???

4. Profit

Just switch one and two and I could see how this plan can work. Otherwise, who thought that was a good idea?

TL;DR I know all about X-23. Still think Weapon X were stupid to create a clone of Wolverine. But then again making the Hulk into a Winter Soldier is an even dumber plan logically and Strucker got lucky that it worked in the first place.

Try again by stealing the DNA of that weapon

Theoretically, rage issues shouldn't be inherited through DNA, at least not in any completely unmanageable level, save for very rare exceptions. Personality isn't inherited like that, or else everyone in our families would be copies of each other. Upbringing plays a much bigger role in the shaping of personality, so it's not like your Wolverine clone has to have Wolverine's control issues unless you stupidly condition them for it.

True, then again the comics like to play up how X-23 is like a daughter to Wolverine which therefore means she will share a lot of her "father's" trait (namely his animalistic rage) by genetics which therefore mean she will turn out a murderous assassin design to take out many people.

Plus considering how I mention that the people behind the cloning wanted to try to recreate the Weapons X Program done on Logan? Well there's the upbringing right there they gave to Laura; the same bullshit that made Wolverine which led to her eventually escaping confused and trigger happy when encountering people.

And I don't really want to pull this card, but its comic book logic. Its the same logic used for explaining how people with mental illness usually tend to either be serial killers or super villains; not really good logic, but fuck it we will just go with it since we are dealing with a medium where radiation of any kind can give you super powers instead of tumors. Guess the point I am making is comics sometimes like to ignore real world science and psychology just to push out a story; so utilizing said information maybe moot in areas when explaining the characters behavior. In this case, the Nature vs. Nurture debate on X-23 is a bit hard to pin point as essential she went through the same process as Wolverine and came out remakably similar in personality and attitude.

edited 29th Aug '16 4:16:36 PM by BigK1337

Exactly, regarding Hulk. As I said, this show really completely fails in its approach of the Hulk: they essentially treat him as a slightly more serious version of the Thing, as they said on the Newtcave. It's shocking how a show handled by Marvel does such a terrible job at understanding how a Marvel character works.

edited 29th Aug '16 4:18:31 PM by Theokal3

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what was posted, but X-23 being female unrelated to whatever plan they had for the clone and didn't they have methods of controlling her before she got free?