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Unclear Description: Of Corsets Sexy get usage counts

 1 peccantis, Tue, 15th May '12 9:41:37 AM Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
What is this supposed to be about? The description does nothing to help understand the trope itself, and there's no laconic. Judging from the title, I'd guess the trope is supposed to be "corsets played for sexiness". Is it? All corsets, in all settings? For both in-universe sexiness and fanservice?

The examples also need cleaning up, there are "X wears a corset in work Y" and also some that elaborate on things but in the end it's not corset-wearing for sexiness. Let's do that once we figure out what the trope is.
before the darkness arrives
I agree. The only example I found that fits the title is in Gone with the Wind when she wants the corset to be tighter even though she just had a baby. Most character don't seem to find them sexy like in Of Corset Hurts.

My guess is that it's supposed to be an attractive character in a corset.

 4 fakeangelbr, Tue, 15th May '12 2:47:21 PM from Fortaleza, Brazil
The Awesomest Character
From what I understand, it's supposed to be like this:

Woman with an average-looking body + corset = Woman with a hot body.

Basically, it's supposed to be about when a character using a corset gets visibly more atractive than without one.
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Those are interesting ideas for pages. But right now, the pages examples are Instances Of Corsets, and its description is "Here's some information about the corset."

Would it be better to lose the period period piece section and just keep it limited to instances of corsets used as outer- and sexy-wear?

 7 shimaspawn, Tue, 15th May '12 4:14:50 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Actually, looking through the examples, a lot of them have the theme of "Corsets outside of period clothing entirely as a sexy costume trope."
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Fallen Paladin
The name and the description seem to say "corsets as fanservice-y outfits". I suggest streamlining it to that, and cleaning up all the examples that are just "instances of people wearing corsets".
You always take us with you when you go
 9 shimaspawn, Wed, 16th May '12 5:57:38 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] That works for me.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
World's Toughest Milkman
Strongly endorse the good Doktorvon's proposal.
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 11 Do Know Butchie, Thu, 17th May '12 2:13:38 AM from San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Don't call me Hikaru.
As a guy who's put a lot of work into the page *, and who just thinks about corsets more than the average person, I'm of two minds about the idea of just cutting the "period dress" section. On one hand, yes, the garment's use in a lot of the period piece examples can't be said to be tropable—it's used because it's what women wore in the period represented by the film, and it's not really meant to say anything about anything. However, I think there's also a case to be made that whatever their primary function, corsets are inherently sexy—or at least, that they inherently serve as fanservice when visible, since a) their function is to shrink the waist and (often) to make one's breasts look larger, which are two things that are generally considered attractive and b) seeing one in a period work by definition means that we are seeing the character in a state of undress. It's also worth noting that corsets were not uncommon in early erotica (here's a mostly SFW collection showing how it was used); while it might just be that "women in a state of undress" was enough for something to qualify as erotica, you could also make the case that they're worn because it's sexier when they do than when they don't.

This doesn't mean that we can't cut down some of the examples (particularly those that consist only of the name of the work) and maybe merge both sections and/or change the description to emphasize the sexiness aspect (I'm working on that at the moment and will post that version here when I'm done), but I'm hesitant to just cut down the second section of the page.

edited 17th May '12 2:16:42 AM by DoKnowButchie

 12 shimaspawn, Thu, 17th May '12 12:38:22 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
How about we split off period dress means corsets into it's own trope instead of trying to shoehorn it in here? We can keep the period examples that are played for sexiness, but having a trope for just "corsets are period" might help things some.

edited 17th May '12 12:39:31 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
I'd say that while a corset in a period piece may not say a lot, it's still an indication of the person's class and situation.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
 14 lebrel, Thu, 17th May '12 1:26:05 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up] Depends on the period. Later Victorian / early Edwardian, everyone wore corsets unless they were 1) so poor as to be wearing rags, 2) bluestockings / health nuts, or 3) Loose Women. An era-by-era analysis of who wore / didn't wear corsets would be possible, but long and probably more Useful Notes-y than trope-y.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
[up]Weren't most people too poor for it in that era?
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
 16 peccantis, Thu, 17th May '12 11:38:27 PM Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
[up] It was some sort of a priority for even not-so-well-off families to have their women in stays (because being without would indicate either loose morals or indeed rag poverty), but these were in no way the heavily boned, tight-laced things the upper classes wore.

edited 17th May '12 11:38:55 PM by peccantis

before the darkness arrives
 17 lebrel, Fri, 18th May '12 11:18:26 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up][up] & [up]: Sewing machines and mass-production meant that by the late 1800's you could buy a basic, factory-made corset for around a dollar (translating monetary value between eras is fraught with complications, but roughly $20-30). That was still a bit much for the very poor, but helps that with care, a corset could last a couple of years, and second-hand shops sold used ones too. The fashionable choice for boning went through several changes in type and rigidity through the decades, but for the late Victorian / early Edwardian period the main differences in corsets worn by working-class women and corsets worn by the wealthy was the quality, fabric, and up-to-dateness of the silhouette, not the basic construction.

In addition, poorer women in that period were extremely likely to work outside the home, and servant, factory and office work frequently mandated corsets as part of being properly dressed. The main reason working-class women had for not wearing a corset was its interference with heavy physical labor; field hands and so forth might not wear one on the job, but unless they were truly grindingly poor they'd probably have one for church and social occasions.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 18 Do Know Butchie, Fri, 18th May '12 5:25:59 PM from San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Don't call me Hikaru.
If there's going to be a split, I think that a trope about corset-lacing scenes would be more useful than just one about them in period films. The latter seems akin to a trope about men wearing pants; the former—while it may overlap a lot of Of Corset Hurts—is at least distinct, since it happens in greater proportions than say, scenes of people putting pants on.
How many examples are there even out there where the corset makes the character feel sexy? If this is based on audience reaction shouldn't it should be under YMMV?

I don't think it's about a character feeling sexy. I think it's just outside of period pieces a corset is a good indication that a characters a Ms. Fanservice or really attractive.

Fallen Paladin
[up]I agree.
You always take us with you when you go
 22 lebrel, Sun, 20th May '12 3:38:54 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Thinking about it a bit, I don't see a point in splitting off period corsets. Women wearing corsets in an era where it was normal for women to wear corsets is chairs (although there might be a trope in women not wearing corsets in an era where it was normal for women to wear corsets). Let's clarify the trope as "corsets for fanservice" and call it a day.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 23 Do Know Butchie, Sun, 20th May '12 5:32:02 PM from San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Don't call me Hikaru.
Okay, so here's a draft for a potential new trope description. Let me know whether or not y'all think it would help.

Ah, the corset. Designed to shape a woman's silhouette, it has captured people's attention for centuries for its ability shrink the waist, define the hips, and to create heaving bosoms where there were once none. Even after they stopped being ubiquitous in the early 20th century, they remained a feature in period films and fetish magazines. More recently, they have gone through a renaissance of sorts—now oftentimes as outerwear—thanks in part to the popularity of movies like Moulin Rouge! and the rise in popularity of things like the steampunk genre and the resurgence of the burlesque scene.

In older fiction, corsets were sometimes used as a way to provide mild fan service—after all, getting to see a woman's corset meant seeing a woman in a state of undress. While they are still sometimes used in this manner, corsets are now also something the costumers go for when they want something unconventionally sexy but doesn't require them to show a lot of skin.

Can involve Impossibly-Low Neckline, Sexy Coat Flashing. See also Of Corset Hurts for another common use of the garment in fiction.
 24 lebrel, Sun, 20th May '12 5:33:20 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up] Better.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Fallen Paladin
[up][up]Looks good to me.
You always take us with you when you go
Total posts: 84
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