Not Tropeworthy: Childrens Television Is Childish

The main problem with this page is that it's an essay with no example section. While it may have examples, they're buried in the essay the way you would do if you're writing a paper. If it were just that, I'd think we might be able to salvage something, but I don't think there's any point in saving it.

Wow, what...what is this supposed to be?

It looks like it might be salvageable as a Useful Note, but I'm not even sure what we'd end up calling it. If there is a tendency for mock kids' shows to be sugary, preschool-oriented ones and not ones meant for older kids, then yeah, that's a trope, but as it is, it looks like it belongs on Everything2 and not here.

Isn't that part of Tastes Like Diabetes?

No, Tastes Like Diabetes is for an audience reaction pages that exists solely for complaining about sweetness and idealism that you don't like.

This is a page for how kids shows tend to by silly and comedic and lacks "drama, moral dilemmas, violence, intricate storylines, or significant character development". I would imagine that they didn't include examples because at the time it was thought of as being Too Common For Examples.

But yeah, it is poorly written.

edited 28th Apr '12 2:42:05 AM by Catbert

I'm honestly glad it doesn't have examples. I suspect it would soon swamp up with "brilliantly averted by Childrens Show That Mid Twenties Nerds Like To Watch, which covers many mature topics such as [mildly scary event] and [mildly sad event]."

How does it compare to Animation Age Ghetto?

I brought this up on the page's discussion—not only is it not tropeworthy, but it's got several flaws in its premise, namely that the dramatic shows it lists as short-lived to support its thesis in fact had long and healthy runs.

Hm, I think we've got some kind of relative to Sugar Bowl or whatever that is a (in work) stereotypical baby show focused on being adorable.

Any body have any ideas besides cut? I wouldn't even call it Useful Notes material, more like an essay. While I have no real issues with someone writing essays, TV Tropes is not the place for it, we're about examples after all.

I'm thinking this trope might be People Sit On Chairs. How many subverts/adverts/parodies/etc of this trope are there, and how does it compare to straight examples. If we let this trope continue, and not say no straight examples, it will come back here again.

edited 29th Apr '12 12:04:50 AM by spacemarine50

There is nothing "Chairs" about the idea that creators generally have specific ideas about what is appropriate for children. There are all sorts of complex, interweaving storytelling conventions (ie tropes) about what does and does not make for good children's stories. However, the current article is a bit of a mess, and I can't think of an easy way to document the concept.

It's just so omnipresent. Of course children's television is childish.

Perhaps we can use this as in index for associated tropes?

Seems kind of redundant with stuff like Animation Age Ghetto and What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?.

How is it redundant? Both those pages are about people incorrectly considering works childish. This is about works actually being childish.

It's pretty much advocating the Comedy Ghetto, though, as far as kid's TV is concerned. It describes dramatic shows as "more progressive", calling "children's TV which isn't throwaway and comedic" a "beneficial effect".

It also correlates the cancellation of Alex Mack and Allen Strange with their more dramatic tones (when in fact both had very healthy runs) and seems to be saying Sonny With A Chance got Retooled because it became more dramatic (when in fact the actress playing Sonny entered rehab.)

edited 29th Apr '12 2:58:16 PM by Wackd

Actually I think Catbert is on to something. There are prevailing cultural customs, certainly in the U.S. and presumably everywhere, about what is and is not appropriate and/or profitable to put in kids' shows. Whether that's "dumbing down" the character and plot development, over-reliance on Black-and-White Morality, lack of sexual topics, reducing the violence and/or gore, or what have you, there probably is something there worth making a page for. If could be a Useful Notes page noting the sort of tropes that tend to be put into children's programming and books in various cultures, or it could be a trope about a specific phenomenon such as the "dumbing down." In any case, YKTTW is probably the place for that.

That's true. And we should really YKTTW those as separate concepts (Sexless Kids Show, Violence Free Kids Show).

I mean, Childrens Television Is Childish looks circular at first glance, seems like it has a point on second thought, but on further reflection is just as circular as it originally appeared. This page's definition is just Childrens Television Has Tropes That We Associate With The Genre. Which is true. But we should identify and document those individual tropes rather than just throwing up this overview. We don't have pages for Horror Movies Are Horrific or Comedies Are Funny. We have long lists of horror and comedy tropes.

edited 29th Apr '12 3:09:47 PM by Routerie

Maybe this needs to become a Special Effort. Start building a Children's Media Tropes Index and identifying the tropes that should go on it, and YKTTW those which need to be written up.

It also could be worthwhile, or tropable, to see how children's media compares between different cultures. For example, do Japanese or Chinese children's media use signifcantly different trope patterns from Western children's media? How do the violence and romance expectations differ between U.S. and U.K. media? How have these things changed over time within cultures? For example, you could look at how Disney has made their Standards and Practices more strict over the years, so they're now censoring reruns of their own cartoons from previous decades.

edited 29th Apr '12 3:09:39 PM by ArcadesSabboth

I'm surprised there's not a Children's Media Tropes index already.

I vote delete: this is just someone ranting about the state of children's media, not a trope. Also, in light of recent events, I no longer trust tropers around anything having to do with children.

The page does not work as-is, and we could cut it for now, but it's a good starting point for a thread on Childrens Media Tropes.

Agreed. The current body of text needs to go even if the topic is worth exploring.

Also, in light of recent events, I no longer trust tropers around anything having to do with children.

What is that even supposed to mean? I guess we better delete all our articles about Children's Literature, etc.

setnakhte, make a stupid statement like that again, and there will be consequences. We don't need Moral Guardians here.

So, no objections to a purge and cut?