It was launched on Sunday. We're only a week further (Saturday Morning in this part of the world at this moment) and most people may not have checked TV Tropes all week and only now, when the weekend starts, they may have time to make a decision. Also, 11 to 11 is pretty close to a final decision being made.
To uncrown it now also seems quite fast, especially compared to the neverending Mythology discussion and the fact that only a few days ago bluesno1fann wondered how long the crowner would take and received the answer as long as it takes. If we wait a little longer until everyone has had his or her chance to vote we could avoid ending now on an even split. Unless there are only 22 tropers active on this site, which I scarcely believe.
And I still feel:
1) It would avoid confusion with bands who released a Self-Titled Album.The namespace Album leaves no confusion to the reader. When you see Album/TheStoneRoses and Music/TheStoneRoses people will understand which page refers to the eponymous album and which to the band itself.
2) At this moment Audioplays have a namespace of their own: "Audioplay/", despite there only being 30 or so articles about audioplays, compared to the 200 and counting about music albums.
3) Seeing that we do make a distinction between creators (Creator/) and their work anyway (Comics/, Film/, Video Game/, Western Animation/, Literature/) it would be logical and more efficient if we made a similar distinction between musical artists and their work- in this case albums.
4) We already make distinctions between composers (Creator/) and their works too, by the way: Theatre/ is used to address their operas and ballets.
5) There are still many books, documentaries, blogs, articles, Top 100 countdowns, magazines,... who devoted time to discussing and analyzing music albums. Having a separate namespace for album would finally legitimize it on this site as its own artform. I mean we have separate namespaces for stuff like Fan Fic, Professional Wrestling, Tabletop Games, individual comic strip books, individual TV episodes, ... but music albums is too much? Come on!
edited 22nd Nov '14 12:44:54 AM by Patachou
The crowner was stuck on 11:11 for a while. Also, the minimum time for crowner usage is 3 days. This crowner didn't get stable or enough votes after that timeframe so I let it run for almost a week (from Saturday to Friday evening), which is a reasonable timeframe. And 11:11 is nowhere near enough to get anything approved in any crowner anywhere.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I think that's a bit unfair. Should have waited until there was a tiebreaker.
A crowner option needs a 2:1 ratio in yes/no votes to be called in favour of that option. This crowner never was at 2:1. Even with a tiebreaker, it would not have been enough.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
1) If the crowner was set for only a week then bluesno1fann's question "How long will this crowner take?" ought to have received that for an answer, not "as long as it takes..."
2) If the person to make the decision to close the crowner is actually not impartial to the matter himself we're not going to get a fair decision. Especially when we end on 11:11. This is not meant as a personal attack: it would be the same if I or any other troper who is for the creation on an Album/ namespace would be the one to make the final decision. If a huge majority would have voted no I would be completely fine with this.
Isn't there a way to have someone outside this discussion overlook the voting procedure?
Or to have all the tropers on this site be informed and participate in the voting?
Or to set an actual definite deadline and have it mentioned in the crowner itself? Also bearing in the mind that the timecodes in the world aren't the same everywhere?
Because a score of 11:11 at least shows that there are enough people with an opinion on the matter. This means that this discussion will reoccur in the future, especially since no definite conclusion was taken.
edited 23rd Nov '14 5:12:54 AM by Patachou
Hi
For what it's worth, I probably would've let the crowner run another 3-4 more days. That said, with 22 votes after only a week and the ratio sitting at 0, the chances of the motion hitting that magic 2:1 mark were essentially nil. Thus, I can't fault Septimus for going ahead and closing it.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
All open crowners can be found at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crown_index.php
, and there's a thread in the FAQ forum to bring tropers attention to a particular issue.
Still just awesome like that
I have to say, I'm rather disappointed with how this went. I don't see any compelling reason not to have a namespace for albums, and I don't think a vote with so few people deciding on a matter for the entire wiki should hold so much water.
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
Most crowners end with only 10 to 20 voters. In fact, I could only find ONE current crowner in the TRS with more than 20 (Big Bad). If 22 is insufficient, then no votes would ever matter and everything would be done entirely by mod-fiat.
Still just awesome like that
I feel like the issue here is that people on this site seem to be too apathetic about these big decisions then. If there were a way they could be made more publicly known, that might help. I know there's a page for current crowners, but how likely is the average user on this site to know that, and how likely is it that they'll check it? There's a reason most site changes seem to catch people off guard.
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
The average user of this site isn't even a registered member. Most tropers stay to the little areas of the wiki that they enjoy, and large-scale logistics aren't often a "fun" thing.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Still just awesome like that
Even the average registered member, though, unless you're implying the number of registered members we have is a two digit number.
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Most tropers stay to the little areas of the wiki that they enjoy, and large-scale logistics aren't often a "fun" thing.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Still just awesome like that
I'm just saying, there needs to be some way to get more users to take part in discussions like these, or at least to vote in crowners like these. Some way to publicize them more, because they do lead to changes that affect the entire site. As I said, there is a reason most site changes come as a shock to most people here.
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
Lost in Space
You can't compel people to pay attention to the sausage making.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Dark Eye
While it would be nice to get more people voting, a lot of people would either vote blindly without considering the facts or just don't care what goes on behind the scenes.
Not every election ends up the way we'd like it to.
—R.J.
[Let's not make it personal, please - Septimus Heap]
edited 28th Nov '14 9:12:11 AM by SeptimusHeap
Crazyrabbits
I'm kind of glad we didn't go through with this. Sounded like it would have put an unneeded level of complexity to a fairly-simplistic namespace, and I didn't even vote on it.
To bring back an older issue: Where do we stand regarding the usage of the Myth/ namespace? The description of the crowner that approved it did not include general mythology pages, and the fact that Mythology/ got a fair few downvotes in said crowner indicates to me (although it's not 100% certain) that people were drawing that distinction too.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I'll just point out that I'm strongly against two separate namespaces like Myth/ and Mythology/. That's completely useless namespace inflation. If Ride/ can cover both specific attractions and whole Theme Parks, then Myth/ is good enough for individual legends and whole mythologies. Namespaces are flexible. Otherwise, we're adding needless complication.
edited 29th Dec '14 1:23:47 AM by StFan
Well, I am not convinced at all, simplicity or no, that Myth/ is a suitable place for mythology systems.
I think we need more people commenting, though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I'm with the Fan of Saints. I thought that was why we were voting on which name to use, since people would later use them interchangeably.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Same here. Besides, nowadays they're pretty interchangeable anyway...
One of the last major categories of works still using the deprecated WebOriginal/ namespace is Original Character Tournament. I'd suggest creating an OCT/ namespace for these, unless they could be lumped with Roleplay/, since in a way they are a form of forum-based roleplaying.
Well, it does not seem to me that the crowner was going to swing in favour of the namespace split even after almost a week and several days at 11:11, so I've called it in favour of not making an Album/ namespace.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman