Not Tropeworthy: Blood Ravens

Technically the title should be "Not a work"

Why do we have this page? The Blood Ravens appear as the main characters of a series of Videogames (Dawn Of War and Dawn Of War II), and their Novelization. You might say the page is about the novels, but the description doesn't really support that, being all about the chapter. And the page is mistitled

I understand character with complex and often variable incarnations and adaptations having pages (ie: Batman or Superman), but this is a faction who is featured in 2 games and the adaptations of said games. Why make a page on a faction when everything that can be said about them can just be rolled into the work pages?

There's other 40k chapter pages like Space Wolf and Ultramarines, both those are A) named after the books, and B) Clearly about the entire work, not just the faction featuring in them, and C) not something already covered by existing work pages.

edited 12th Apr '12 12:01:37 PM by Ghilz

I went through the page earlier today and carved out all the Zero Context Example sections, and rewrote the tropes that did apply. However, I agree that the page would probably be better if it was merged with the Characters Section of the Dawn of War page.

edited 12th Apr '12 12:13:45 PM by arcsquad12

A quick poke at the space marine Chapters pages we appear to have sees them all listed on the Main page for 40K under the Books section. Ergo, all the 40K Space Marine chapter pages are supposedly about the novels series featuring them. But few of the pages have any information about the novels besides a "this chapter appears in these books by this bloke."

Night Lords, Word Bearers and Blood Angels are probably the best of the bunch, since they actually have something about the plots of the novels they're meant to be about.

White Scars is in need of some serious help; it's actually worse off than Blood Ravens.

I'd love to go through and fix all of them, but that'd be an epic work that would surely set me babbling about the warp overtaking me or something. And it'd require me to actually read some of the books. Making each page actually more about the novels rather than the chapter featured in them and moving them across to Literature namespace would be a good starting point, as would hacking out the Zero Context Examples. Ultramarines could really do with being Warhammer 40000 Ultramarines; since it's really a film about 40K wherein the protagonists happen to be the gorram Smurfs, rather than a film about Ultramarines the novel series.

Argh. Warhammer 40K and its related pages are a mess, aren't they?

edited 12th Apr '12 3:56:33 PM by troublegum

The Blood Angels one needs work on its description, as it seems almost completely focused on the chapter, with "Oh and there's books too" as a side note. Though the trope list seems mostly focused on the books, even if it has the occasional trope clearly about Warhammer 40 K's gameplay.

Heck, most of them are like that, reading like glorified character pages posing as works, with the occasional trope about the work.

On the subject of the Blood Ravens page, any reason not to merge it into Characters.Dawn Of War ?

I really like that idea, though I'd suggest also naming the page with the word "novels" to make it clear the page is about the work, not just the chapters. Something like Ultramarine Novels & Blood Angels Novels.

edited 12th Apr '12 4:45:13 PM by CobraPrime

I'll drop a note in the Warhammer 40k thread.

@ Cobra Prime, use the Literature Name Space Ultramine and Blood Angels are the designated points for the books.

"Best of the bunch" wasn't really meant as much of a compliment in this case. These Chapter pages are pretty much like bare bones entries in the 40K Wiki with some tropes tacked on.

I can't see much reason not to merge the BR page into Characters.Dawn Of War. All of the tropes associated with them are things that happen in the games and other media related to the game. In the same spirit that I suggest the Ultramarines film should be more attached to 40K by name, I'd support a stronger connection between any page discussing the Blood Ravens and the Dawn Of War series.

Would the best way of doing that be to create a Blood Angels Novels page, copy over the current content and then redirect from Blood Angels to the new Novels page? (replace Blood Angels with Chapter X where appropriate) Or would we need to go through a Renaming process?

We're supposed to use the "official" title of the books and refrain from tacking on other terms unless we need to disambiguate if at all possible.

However, this would not require a rename based TRS, it falls under "namespacing" which is perfectly fine to do as long as you make sure you move all the wicks and what not. How To Move A Page has a full walkthrough (with pictures) if you're not familiar with the process.

A quick look at GW's online catalogue tells me that the James Swallow novels are collected in two 'Omnibus' editions simply entitled "Blood Angels: The First/Second Omnibus." I guess we can just call the pages Blood Angels and make sure the description has something in it discouraging people from editing in stuff that's just fluff about the Chapter itself and unrelated to the novels.

Ohgod. 219 wicks to move.

edited 13th Apr '12 2:50:12 AM by troublegum

I'll help

Edit Or not, since you did it.

Edit: Moving the Ultramarine page to Ultramarines

edited 13th Apr '12 12:32:21 PM by CobraPrime

Turns out we also have Salamanders which is worst coz it sounds like a trope page about Salamanders (See Alchemic Elementals)

Adding to the list we gotta clean up:

• Grey Knights
• Iron Warriors
• Imperial Fists
• Imperial Guard (Which sounds like Praetorian Guard)

Soooo Much work. Made a post in the 40k thread to ask for help in the cleanup.

edited 13th Apr '12 1:22:42 PM by CobraPrime

Yeah, 40K being what it is and having the size of fanbase it does, the Chapter pages which should really be works pages have spread their tendrils through the wiki like the Hydra in the Warp.

I also tidied up Word Bearers, which was nice an easy compared to Blood Angels (24 wicks vs 219).

Night Lords Dark Angels Soul Drinkers Black Legion

I'll get Dark Angels done just now, since it's only got 4 wicks.

Just for clarity, I'm only changing wicks to Literature.Chapter X when the example wick is actually about the book. Where its in as a Tabletop Game example, I'm just removing the wick to the Chapter when there's already a wick to 40K's main page.

edited 14th Apr '12 5:35:57 AM by troublegum

Doing the same thing

WHYYYYYYYYYY are there so many ultramarines wicks

A combination of the Ultrasmurf effect and the 40K film being called Ultramarines.

Grey Knights and Iron Warriors are done.

OK; we may have run into a slight problem. Black Legion and Imperial Fists don't really have a series of like-named novels. The Fists have 1 recent novel and several short stories about them; Sons Of Dorn is the novel.

The Black Legion predominantly feature in novels relating to the Horus Heresy (another 40K page to add to our list of things to migrate). As such, any novel-related examples for them should already be on the HH page. Merge them to the characters page for that?

edited 14th Apr '12 4:44:38 PM by troublegum

I don't see why not.

Salamanders is done.

And Soul Drinkers.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:30:33 AM by troublegum

Finished Ultramarines that Cobra Prime started.

Cutlisted the main namespace pages for Blood Angels, Ultramarines and Salamanders since they are frequent targets of Sink Holes about the faction.

Space Wolf will be a pain in the butt to clean.

edited 15th Apr '12 9:27:07 AM by Ghilz

Troublegum, each time you moved a page and put the disclaimer, you write "grey knights" rather than the page's topic.

Derp. That'll happen when you're copypasting and not paying enough attention.

Horus Heresy will be the real bugger to clean, though. 373 wicks. Ugh.

Clocking due to lack of activity.

Locking up.