Are we discouraging social behavior? Should we?

I'm gonna share with you a little something that I've learned in my time in this world:

Large numbers of people have no social skills whatsoever.

I'll start in reverse. I'm in law school right now. There are 150 people in my class. I can count on my fingers the number of people comfortable talking in front of others, starting a conversation with someone they don't know, or explaining an original idea of theirs. This is a place where you have to be able to do all of those things to have a good experience there - you have to be able to share your ideas in class, have to be able to work with others, and have to be able to stand up in front of people and talk. On the whole, these are people who have held jobs, and all of them have completed primary/secondary education and obtained a bachelor's degree. Yet many of them cannot even sit down with a fake interviewer who is actually their friend without going to pieces.

Stepping back a bit. Undergrad. I go to grab lunch at this cafeteria-style area. There is a cute girl standing behind the counter, and as soon as people walk up, she says, "Hello" or "Good morning" or whatever in a bright, enthusiastic voice. 3/10 look confused and don't say anything at all. 5/10 start ordering immediately. Maybe 20% say hello back or even make eye contact.

Stepping back further, my job as a waiter. About half the managers had no or limited ability to accurately convey what they needed from the staff, or the leadership to get them to do what they need, or the social skills to sit down with them one on one and discuss a problem.

The customers (many of them beyond the age of those in the undergrad section above) likewise had trouble communicating. They would ignore greetings, rudely interrupt, and not look me in the eye.

Why is this? There must be many causes for people unable to look others in the eye, or respond to a friendly greeting, or being frightened of proposing ideas to a group. And if we are discouraging socialization (say, in schools), do its benefits outweigh its costs?

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.

Meh. There have always been many shy and introverted people - it's human nature. The idea that there is Someone or Something trying to 'discourage' social behaviour sounds like a Conspiracy Theory to me.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

No, he has a point.

As we've created more and more ways to interact with others without being physically there or entertain yourself alone, people spend less and less time together. So they become less social.

I had to train myself last year to make eye contact with people for more than a few seconds. I couldn't do it before that.

edited 10th Apr '12 4:45:23 PM by Ultrayellow

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

I blame facebook before it even became famous and widely used. I. WAS. RIGHT

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...

Neh, long before the internet is here I've already noticed that the education system doesn't favor social behavior.

Think about it: traditionally people who work hard in school are seen as "anti-social nerds", people who would rather do homework and study rather than seeing people. People who work hard are seen as contributing to society, whereas people who socialize are seen as having "fun" and are regarded as leisure at best. Back in my day when I was a kid my mum desperately wants my sister to be "more like me", to study more and go out with friends less.

Anti-socialization in a customer-employee relationship is a bad example, and you're speaking from a bias perspective, as far as I can see. There are just as many employees/workers that are anti-social as there are customers, speaking from a percentage's view.

Employees have grown to realize that customers do not respond to their gestures, thus, they slowly decay into not actually caring about the customers. Likewise, and feeding into this, customers have grown to understand that employees only ask how their day is in order to appear "lively;" to them, it's just a stock phrase, like a computer boot-up screen. It's not something that needs to be recognized with any more than a just-as-plain answer.

Now, I always try to speak to cashiers and employees. I understand how it is to be in their position, so when they ask me how my day is, unless I'm obviously preoccupied with something else mid-checking out, I strike up conversation, make jokes, etc. I'm not afraid to speak in public, which, might I add, is the biggest fear in our society. Speaking in public is more feared than death.

So, no, I wouldn't say we discourage social behavior. Just because not every customer-employee relationship ends with the two becoming the best of friends does not mean we are discourage from socializing. That is simply how two complete strangers with clear roles communicate with each other; one is purchasing a product and uses the other for assistance, the other is there to assist the former and make sure they find what they're looking for in order to best sell their merchandise.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior

I'd say its more the opposite. Schools rarely emphasize the necessity to socialize with anyone. After all, what use is socializing to passing standardized tests so the school stays open?

I second blaming the schools, or more importantly someone else.

I've started to wonder if Americans are on the antisocial end of the spectrum in general. It's not easy to mix in public; everyone brings along a posse of girlfriends or wingmen, they sit in compartmentalized corners, and strangers are a regarded with a wary eye.

This to me seems antithetical to going to where people congregate.

Schools certainly don't help, as your choices are conformity or becoming an especially tough bastard, because you're in for a hard road ahead if you can't conform.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

Haha I wasn't suggesting a secret cabal of people saying "socialization is bad," more that a set of a factors may be slowly making social interaction into something less pleasant to learn or otherwise knocking at the margins.

Maybe so. I still tend to think that people getting a deer in the headlights look and refuse to make eye contact when someone says "hello" to them is a result of an inability to engage in a social interaction. As for my bias, it's definitely possible, although I imagine that my experiences as a customer are probably about equal to my experiences as a service provider in terms of how much time I've done as both. There are definitely people on service end who can't socialize properly, like hostesses who don't look guests in the eye, don't say hello, and just say, "how many?"

The problem with a lack of social skills is also bigger than the consumer/employee environment. Making friends, going out on dates, getting a job, performing well in a job, and keeping a job all require some level of socialization.

Even if you are in a job that does not require any contact with consumers, you will likely have to make reports to someone. Maybe you can do that on paper, but sometimes you'll need to talk to a manager or a co-worker, get them to understand your viewpoint, or else you'll have to do something someone else's way, and that makes you an expendable tool, not a useful part of the company.

Again, my biggest concern is the number of law students I look around and see that have no social skills. They fall apart when called on in class, even if they're prepared. They fall apart when doing mock interviews, or when making mock arguments. They don't work well in groups, and when they do, it's following someone else's idea blindly instead of advocating an idea they have come up with or personally approve of. I struggle to imagine how these people will function as attorneys.

edited 10th Apr '12 6:18:59 PM by Vericrat

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.

[[quoteblock]] I'd say its more the opposite. Schools rarely emphasize the necessity to socialize with anyone. After all, what use is socializing to passing standardized tests so the school stays open? [[//quoteblock]]

Um, I thought that I was saying the opposite: schools and society in general do not encourage socialising?

I'm not sure I've ever seen this happen.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

I envy the world you live in and would like to request a transfer.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen that happen, either.

I would also like to say that giving an interview is very different from simply being social or even giving a public presentation. I would rather do public speaking than go to an interview. Seriously.

edited 10th Apr '12 6:51:27 PM by ohsointocats

My mother voiced the interesting opinion that dating sites arose as a phenomena because many young people of this generation have no physical places in which they can meet each other socially.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Hey, just walking up and talking to a girl is a huge hurdle.

edited 10th Apr '12 7:53:50 PM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel

I usually have no problem socializing, even as an introvert. But I will heartily admit talking to a girl is easy..as long as I'm not thinking of her as a potential romance option. The second romance comes into play I quickly flee for the nice safe fields of friendship.

As a few others have said, the huge rise in social networking is giving people the ability to talk to others without ever having to physically see them. People are used to just words on a screen but hearing the same words in person has a whole new take and feeling that you can't get from pure text.

Hell, just look at how people interact in online video games. You can't go by without someone calling someone else a fag, N word, or any other curse word they can think of. People troll and grief each other all the time online because they probably think that's the norm.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.

You reminded me of an activity we did on a religious retreat I went on in high school. Basically, we sat in two circles, one on the inside looking out and the other vice versa. Progressively, we kept moving one seat over, but only after being made to look into the eyes of the person across from us for about thirty whole seconds. It was horribly awkward.

Now, my question: Was it awkward because that's something unnatural that we shouldn't need to do, or was it awkward because people merely have it in their minds that connecting with someone in this way is just a really unnatural thing? In other words, was it just a self-imposed psychological block that we all had, or is it totally natural that it felt awkward for all of us?

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, as it can't be meant literally...

edited 10th Apr '12 8:52:15 PM by Wicked223

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!

Believe me, that's not as uncommon of an opinion as you'd think. I've heard it from my parents, elderly folk, and just generally so many people from the middle age up.

To be fair, there aren't really any roller discos anymore since Xanadu killed them.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

I've gotten mixed messages. Some people I hung around seemed to encourage social skills, while others seemed to discourage them.

But I have noticed some odd things. I have noticed (and it's not everyone, but enough people that I couldn't ignore it) that some people seem to not know how to respond to little things, like when I ask for directions, they'll have a "deer in headlights" look. I just figured they probably weren't expecting anyone to ask them, but I guess maybe it could be something else.

Or, I'm in a conversation with someone and it's clear we're going to be in that area together pretty often (and may have exchanged phone numbers). They ask me if I have a Facebook. I say no (because I don't), and they say, "Too bad, we could have talked." This has happened several times when I was in college, and the people saying it were often people who lived in the same dorm as me. I just thought that's because Facebook was "cool," and they were still concerned about being seen as cool. Again, I could be wrong.

I have met adults (in college and out of college) who seem very reluctant to even answer an innocuous question (like directions, or the time) asked by a stranger. Again, I don't know if that's because they're afraid of talking to someone outside of their group or they just didn't hear them. Sometimes I'll ask them why they didn't just answer the question and they'll say, "Because I don't know them." But I don't always ask why and even when I do ask, that isn't always the answer.

Also, being introverted and lacking social skills are two different things. I'm rather introverted, but I have no trouble talking to other people in person or public speaking.

edited 10th Apr '12 9:04:22 PM by BlackElephant

I'm an elephant. Rurr.

Precisely. There's some correlation, because introverts by definition get fewer chances to hone social skills, but one can be a socially adept introvert. It's just increasingly rare.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

I hate that sort of thing with the raging fire of a thousand suns.

I don't think I am especially unsociable in Real Life — I am a bit a private person, definitely moreso than over here, but I don't really have any trouble making random chitchat or hanging out with friends and acquaintances.

But that sort of forced, "let's do something vaguely awkward and get-togetherish in order to know each other" thing is something I loathe and abhor beyond measure.

I think that they mostly exist because the technology makes them possible. If it had been possible to create dating sites two centuries ago, people would have done just that.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I think the problem when it comes to customer and provider relationships is that our level of materialism has grown to the point where I think sometimes people forget that those in retail, food, or other similar industries are actually humans and not machines.

I especially saw this in my experience in retail and as a waitress. It was even worse when I was working when I was pregnant.

I was the one who was called in to deal with the screaming and irate customers regardless of my job because I could handle it. It was amusing to see grown people all of a sudden act stupid towards me, but had I been their teacher, police officer, etc. I know they would have handled their grievances differently. Somehow because of my station as lowly retail clerk it was okay to treat me in that way.

Another thing is how quickly we are forced to process everything. A troper pointed out earlier how schools are too busy trying to get kids to score on stupid standardized test instead of actually instilling quality skills. Parent's aren't picking up the slack at home as well as they should. So it's a social responisibility with multiple factors.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Yeah, I've never once said hi to someone and they just stared at me as if I broke the code in the matrix. I don't mean to single you out or anything, but are you sure you're understanding non-verbal messages correctly? Maybe they're not giving you blank looks because you're just speaking to them, maybe they're giving you blank looks because of the way you're speaking to them? Just some thoughts, because I only know one person who would legitimately give you a blank look if you spoke to him suddenly, and he has Aspergers, so communication in general isn't really his forte.

I will admit, I might be biased/babied in my understanding of socializing. Believe it or not, but Texas does have a "southern hospitality" where everyone's pretty OK with each other.

I'm also a white college-aged male with no mental disorders living in southern America, so, there's that bias, too.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior