Ambiguous Name: Voodoo Shark

So this trope is about explanations (usually Word of God) that only serve to make something more confusing by bringing up a whole other set of questions.

So...how does that translate to "Voodoo Shark"?

If you haven't seen the Jaws movie that this is taken from, how would anyone connect those two together?

This trope should be renamed to something that actually, you know, makes sense, especially since we're trying to dispatch of trope names based off a specific instance of a trope that "everybody should know".

Looking right at the page quote, I suggest the title That Just Raises Further Questions.

Edit: Apparently the latter is a redirect to the former. I wasn't aware of this.

So...why don't we just flip flop them? Have Voodoo Shark be a redirect to That Just Raises Further Questions?

edited 29th Mar '12 2:00:14 PM by ThePope

That's a good suggestion for a new name. A lot of shows have perfectly indicative lines that could be used for trope names. It's not quite concise, but it's clear.

EDIT: Wait. I just realized that could apply to other things, like philosophy or deductions where an honest clue still makes more questions than it answers.

edited 29th Mar '12 2:21:03 PM by DragonQuestZ

Wasn't this just in here a couple of months ago with another rename attempt, and concluding there was no need for a rename?

edited 29th Mar '12 2:24:01 PM by CrypticMirror

How about Plot Hole Filled With Another Plot Hole?

Yes.

Preexisting term there and 700 inbounds, so no rename, please.

"It's got a lot of links" does not excuse a bad title.

Otherwise, articles like The Poochie and Xanatos Roulette would've been left alone.

We have a list of accepted renames, so we really should have a list of rejected rename attempts (even if it is a rolling list, where things drop off it after 18-24 months) to prevent threads like this. Its what makes TRS so unpopular, the perception that it always wants a second bite of the rename cherry.

So far the only reasons I've heard for keeping the title are "it's what it's always been" and "it's got a lot of links".

Ahem...

If a title is bad, it should be changed, not kept around out of fear of change.

@Cryptic: Take it to Wiki Talk. I have the idea that we need another "Improve TRS" thread, but please without any conspiracy theories or the like.

@The Pope, Xanatos Roulette was renamed for promoting Trope Decay of Xanatos Gambit due to it being an inaccurate snowclone of it.

And what, pray tell, does this trope have to do with voodoo or sharks, except for one specific example?

An All There in the Manual example at that.

So other than "I don't think the name works" has there been any evidence of misuse, confusion, lack of useage, etc in the OP?

Coz last I checked threads without that in the OP were supposed to be locked.

And I lock-hollered this one already.

It's not "I don't think the name works".

It's "The name has nothing to do with the trope at hand".

There's a bit of a difference.

Trope names don't need to be perfect. If a name looks like it shouldn't work, but it does, then we don't rename.

You already started ONE THREAD on this same issue before, and the rename failed; it was flat-out rejected even.

I view the conclusion reached in the previous thread you started as setting a precedent on the matter you've raised yet again, and I see no reason here why it should be disregarded.

edited 29th Mar '12 2:55:08 PM by SeanMurrayI

Oh, the old one was from the same person too. Wow.

Yeah, and since then a lot of tropes have been renamed to more broad, understandable titles. And yet this remains the same.

So far I've heard plenty of reasons why it shouldn't be changed, but so far I haven't heard a single one as to why it's a good title, and why it should be kept, aside from "it's too much hard work" or "it's fine".

How is this a good title? What does it have to do with anything?

Why don't we change "Elfeminate" to "'Zevranesque"? It's an example! It "works"!

Except people unfamiliar with the work in question will be confused, and it's the same here.

Put yourself in the shoes of a non-resident of the site. You're checking out one of your favorite pages, and you see "Voodoo Shark". What would your mind jump to? Weird fish? Weird voodoo magic? Haunted animals?

Or "an explanation that creates further plot holes"?

You should be able to get the gist of a trope by reading its title. If you look at a title, and you have to actually read the trope to get what it means, it's doing its job wrong.

edited 29th Mar '12 3:05:48 PM by ThePope

Your previous thread on this topic established Voodoo Shark as a pre-existing term for this occurrence (this is not something we tropers named; this term existed before us), and you even inadvertently gave evidence that the term is in wide use off of this wiki. Nobody could even show that the term was being misused.

There's no way you're going to get this page renamed if you can't give us reason to question the conclusions reached the last time you brought this up.

edited 29th Mar '12 3:11:53 PM by SeanMurrayI

It doesn't matter if it's a "term" that exists outside of this site. What matters is whether or not uninformed readers will get it.

A title should be instantly indicative of what the trope consists of. "Voodoo Shark" is not, regardless of whether or not it's an actual term.

No, what matters is the conclusion reached the last time you brought this same topic up (and made these same arguments, even).

We as a community have debated this issue, and we've already made a decision. You're not going to be able to push a rename through when you're restating the same arguments from your previous thread that were already rejected by everyone else the last time you brought this subject up.

edited 29th Mar '12 3:19:48 PM by SeanMurrayI

First of all, reading through the thread again, it's pretty split as far as what to do. The only arguments in favor of keeping it is "we've had it forever" or "there's a lot of links". In fact, it seems like more people wanted it changed, and the only reason why the thread was locked was because there wasn't a consensus on what to call it. I can bet you, if we actually had a crowner, that anything aside from "Voodoo Shark" would win.

Second, there is no statement saying that it's indicative of the trope in question.

Third, it doesn't matter whether or not the trope is misused; it's that nobody knows what the hell it is unless they read the article. Chances are, if it were renamed to something that made a lick of goddamned sense, more people would link to it.

If nobody's understanding the article, why is there no misuse?

If one term created by an Internet personality is challenged by the "it's an unclear name, and I don't get what it means just by looking at it!" argument, we need to challenge all such terms. If we're gonna mess with Voodoo Shark, we gotta mess with Big-Lipped Alligator Moment, Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, Too Incompetant To Operate A Blanket, Hot Skitty-on-Wailord Action, and so forth. It's only fair. Do your really want to go down that path?

Big-Lipped Alligator Moment has "Moment" in the title, preceded by a very odd statement (Big Lipped Alligator). Therefore, it's easy to surmise that it's about a very odd, out of place moment.

Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny is Exactly What It Says on the Tin.

Too Incompetant To Operate A Blanket appears to be dead.

Hot Skitty-on-Wailord Action is also very self-explanatory: hot x on y action implies sex, it's easy to surmise that "skitty" has something to do with a "kitty" and "wailord" has something to do with "whale", so "Hot Kitty on Whale Action" is pretty much exactly what the trope is; incredibly bizarre pairings that shouldn't really make sense but somehow do.

"Voodoo Shark" has...nothing. No deduction can be made to tie "voodoo shark" to "explanation given that creates further unanswered questions".

An internet-induced title is okay if the title works. In this case, it does not.