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Misused: Deus Ex Homine
Deadlock Clock: 19th May '12 11:59 PM
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Misused: Deus Ex Homine get usage counts

 26 lu 127, Tue, 9th Oct '12 3:33:42 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Crowner called.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
World's Toughest Milkman
Ok, we've agreed on a merge (and I agree that it makes sense), but to actually do the merge, we need to agree on the definition of the merged trope.

If Ascended to a Higher Plane of Existence no longer requires the disappearance (Put on a Bus) element, then some of the current examples of Deity of Human Origin may belong there instead. And I think we all agree that the "must build a world" requirement of Deity of Human Origin should go. But we still need to find a way to say that this includes both ascended mortals and man-made gods.

In general, I dislike having separate, iterated types, especially when, as in this case, the types will frequently overlap. I'd rather simply say something along the lines of "A Deity of Human Origin is an actual God made by or from (a) human(s), " or something along those lines. But I'll bow to the wisdom of the majority if others disagree.

edited 10th Oct '12 12:42:59 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 28 Archereon, Sun, 14th Oct '12 2:28:28 PM from Everywhere.
Ave Imperator
[up] It's not just that they frequently overlap, it's that those examples of Deus Ex Homine that don't overlap are the exception rather than the rule, especially if you count said trope's requirement that the deity's creation be intentional, which precludes entities like the Chaos Gods from counting as examples.
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World's Toughest Milkman
[up]Great, that makes the argument against trying to have iterated types even stronger.

So what about my one-sentence summary? Is that a good starting place for describing the merged trope?
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 30 Archereon, Sun, 4th Nov '12 2:13:18 PM from Everywhere.
Ave Imperator
[up] That sounds good to me.
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 31 lu 127, Wed, 12th Dec '12 4:57:28 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Go ahead.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
World's Toughest Milkman
O-o-o-kay...obviously, one line doth not a description make, but at least I have a starting place. Now, I just have to figure out how to articulate the difference between this and Ascend to a Higher Plane of Existence. I understand the difference—I'm just not sure how to explain it.

If I haven't posted anything further by the Saturday, Dec. 15, feel free to nag me/PM me.

(Of course, suggestions are always welcome.)

edited 13th Dec '12 11:32:59 AM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
World's Toughest Milkman
Ok, so the proposed new definition for the merged trope (Deity of Human Origin) is:
A Deity of Human Origin is an actual God made by or from a human (or humans). Not merely godlike, but an actual de facto God who has created a universe or sentient species or performed some other feat worthy of a true god. May or may not still have a physical body.

It may be a person who has raised up by other gods, or a computer program that has somehow tapped into a source of divine power, or anything, really. The important thing is that it's an actual God with roots in humanity.

This may overlap with Ascended to a Higher Plane of Existence, but that trope doesn't require actual Godhood, and this trope doesn't require a higher plane.

If the Deity of Human Origin is the creator of the world/universe, then it's another one than the one he grew up in...unless he's in a Stable Time Loop, of course.

Having created a world does not automatically make a person into this trope: It's a matter of how the whole thing is portrayed. Let's say that some guy creates a virtual world where the computer programs are real individuals with real emotion & self-aware intelligence. If the programmer comes across as having crossed some kind of Moral Event Horizon, it's not this trope. If they instead come across as some kind of Crystal Dragon Jesus, it's definitely this trope.

In a setting where gods are powered by the faith of their followers, it may be possible for a mortal to ascend to godhood with sufficient worship. The classic example is a hero so renowned that the common people pray to him or her for aid.

In any case, the trope name uses the word "human" in a very broad sense — Fantasy creatures can be included.
The first three paragraphs are new; the last four are unchanged from the original.

Comments? Criticism? Brickbats?

edited 15th Dec '12 4:12:00 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
World's Toughest Milkman
Bump? Anyone? If my description is deemed acceptable, I'll start the merge tomorrow (Monday).
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
World's Toughest Milkman
Ok, the merger is basically complete. All that remains is to fix the wicks for the old name. (And, of course, check for misuse while doing so.)
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
World's Toughest Milkman
Only nine wicks left, of which one is a misspelled redirect that's on the cut list, and another is a probably-useless redirect (Dea Ex Homine) that I haven't come to a definite conclusion about.

The remain seven all refer to two different video games, and I am not sure if they are actual examples (and should be changed to Deity of Human Origin) or are misuse for like-a-god-but-not-really-a-god, and should be removed. The two games are Deus Ex and Golden Sun. I'm inclined to think that the Deus Ex example might be valid, but that the Golden Sun example probably isn't, but I'm hoping to get a second opinion.

edit: spelling

edited 21st Dec '12 4:24:52 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 37 Septimus Heap, Fri, 21st Dec '12 4:37:31 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Move them to the discussion page. Not much else can be done.

World's Toughest Milkman
Whoops, almost forgot about this one. Ok, wicks all fixed now.

There was a bizarre redirect, Dea Ex Homine, which I went ahead and sent to the cut-list, since Deus Ex Homine is no longer the main name of any trope, and I can't imagine it would be useful as a search term. Whether it gets cut or not, though, I think we can probably call this one done.

edited 2nd Jan '13 12:45:00 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
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Page Action: Deus Ex Homine
16th May '12 6:18:23 AM
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