Not Tropeworthy: Start To Save

This page is about the length of time between the start of a video game and the place where you can first save your progress.

I don't think that's a trope. At the very least, it should be considered trivia, but I think we can also make a case for cutlisting. It doesn't have anything to do with storytelling, and anything worth troping here is already covered by Save Point and games-that-let-you-save-everywhere.

Oh, wow. This is bad. No YKTTW either.

I think it needs some redefinition to get significance. We could make it about games where it takes a long time after the beginning to save. And move to trivia.

I wouldn't mind a cut either, though.

It wouldn't be trivia if it's just that there's a long time from start to save. I think that would be a valid trope. Trivia is for things that you will never notice just playing the game or watching the work.

OT: Do we have an official definition of Trivia? From the Trivia thread, it seems that the definition is often quite contested, like a philosophical debate.

Also, IIRC, if we decide in TRS that this is Trivia it still must go through the Trivia crowner.

We do have an official definition and I added it to that crowner. Previous versions have had it on there but I guess it hasn't transferred. Trivia is things about the work that aren't in the work.

And no, it doesn't have to go through the trivia crowner too. It just needs to go through A trivia crowner. TRS can do those too. The thread is for pages that otherwise don't need repair.

edited 11th Mar '12 11:55:21 AM by shimaspawn

So...takes a long time for the first save is not trivia material? Well, I guess it makes sense. Video game tropes generally aren't just about the narrative.

Yep. That would be a game play trope. We also have things like Camera Tropes.

edited 11th Mar '12 11:59:11 AM by shimaspawn

I think that if it's not deliberately put there by the designer, then it's trivia, no?

No, deliberate or not has no bearing on if it's trivia. There's nothing about this that is in any way related to Trivia.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:00:30 PM by shimaspawn

This brings back my thinking we might need a list for Accidental Tropes (that still objectively happened).

Also, this would need a new name if it's specifically about a long start to save time.

Which reminds me, do we have a Video Game Tropes index?

EDIT:We do! But it might need a split or reorganising—too big.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:07:59 PM by lu127

I agree on the rename. The description on the trope and the examples make it seem like that was the idea behind it.

Yes, it's called Video Game Tropes. You just linked it.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:08:00 PM by shimaspawn

Honestly, I would consider it not tropeable. This is a side-effect of Story to Gameplay Ratio. Lots of Cutscenes means Gameplay begins later which means you don't save early. It'd be like having a subtrope "Star to character turning left" or whatever other gameplay bit.

Having this just feels redundant, expecially since lots of the examples overlap with STGR's.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:09:41 PM by Ghilz

Okay...

I think "it takes a long time from the start of the game before you can save" is a trope.

There's also "you can save your game everywhere, even in the first room" which is basically an inversion of Save Point. That's something for YKTTW, perhaps.

Yeah, we do need a Save Anywhere Anytime trope.

I think that this is a little bigger deal in games where the first part of your game is setting up and customizing your character. Doing character creation repetitively because you couldn't get to the first save point is a pain. It is a trope. There's plenty of examples on that other trope that do save right off that bat.

edited 11th Mar '12 12:12:02 PM by shimaspawn

Wouldn't that simply be an aversion of Save-Game Limits?

No, because many ways to save avert that. It's more an aversion of Save Point, but that still allows it as a trope, as they create different effects in games.

Even a Save Anywhere System can be subject to Save-Game Limits. For example, just because you can save your game anywhere doesn't mean you can resume the game from that precise and exact location and moment in time (e.g. any The Legend Of Zelda game).

edited 12th Mar '12 9:05:55 AM by Stratadrake

There are lots of different save systems

• Auto-Save
• Checkpoint Save
• Save Anywhere (going to the menu to save or even like Mass Effect 3 hit select to save.)
  • Combat Save Lockout locked out of saving while in combat.
• Temporary Save also known as a Quick Save one time only save usually reserved for handhelds.
• Save Point s (usually very conspicuous.)
  • Save Points Heal You
• Restrictive Save no actual Save Point s are found on your journey you must return to town or world map to save. These get ported to a Handheld expect a Quick Save to be added.
  • World Map Only Save (first 3 Final Fantasy games had this)
  • Hub Level Saving Only
• Creative Saving like praying at a church. or using a typewriter Call a moogle
• Objective Save like only save when you get a star or beat a castle in Mario games.
• Password Save OLD SCHOOL.
• Cutscene Save: cutscenes are so long they give you a save opportunity in the middle of them.
• Only One Save File popular with handhelds you can only save in one slot Save Scumming is a no go also replay means delete your old game.
  • Three Saves: industry standard till Memory Card s became popular not too many to where Save Scumming is easy but still allows for replays.

edited 12th Mar '12 1:05:50 PM by Raso

Quick Save is also a common PC game thing. It's generally a one button save that isn't meant to be permanent.

Ahh most PC games I have don't have that.

Well anyway I do agree that a long time for the first save point is an ok trope I would prefer it to be more of just "any large gap between save points".

Like say Persona 4 has a long while till the first calendar that is true but after every boss there are a hell of alot of cutscenes till you can save again too.

And man those are a lot of YKTTW ideas I had....

It's really common in PC RPGs in my experience.

There do seem a lot of missing tropes. Perhaps a Save Game or Save File as the supertrope to all of them.

edited 12th Mar '12 9:55:44 AM by shimaspawn

Yeah, all those should be made.

We do seem to be missing quite a few save game tropes, don't we? Let me know if you need help YKTT Wing them.

If this is tropable, it seems like it's pretty subjective. It's also kind of narrow - why is a long period before the first save different than a long period between the X and the X+1 save? Perhaps it's better off just mentioning that games that restrict saving can have long periods between when you can save on the proposed supertrope, or on the subtropes that can cause this, like Save Point and Restricted Save.

edited 12th Mar '12 1:42:03 PM by ccoa

I think the biggest issue is the restart from start aspect.