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Media namespaces -- a battery of questions:

This is the sticky thread for questions related to the namespacing of works. As in, "which is the right namespace for this work?"

Ideally, questions already answered are covered on the Namespace Map. If you know a namespacing issue has already been resolved, but it is not yet documented on the Map, please update the Map.

If you want to suggest a new namespace, don't post here, but in Suggesting New Namespaces instead.
Original OP: 

edited 22nd Jul '13 6:47:29 AM by Willbyr

This is the sticky thread for questions related to the namespacing of works. As in, "which is the right namespace for this work?"

Ideally, questions already answered are covered on the Namespace Map. If you know a namespacing issue has already been resolved, but it is not yet documented on the Map, please update the Map.

If you want to suggest a new namespace, don't post here, but in Suggesting New Namespaces instead.
Original OP: 

edited 22nd Jul '13 6:47:29 AM by Willbyr

It's perfectly possible to admire building a cannon to destroy the moon, whilst lamenting the act of destruction.
someone
Also, what of works that are multimedia? As in, spread across mediums. Anything under Transformers: Timelines is like that.
something

Western Animation

  • #2: There are a few songs which have their own pages ("Pirate Jenny"). Where do they go – to Music/ or to Literature/ ?

Music

  • #3: Where do composers go – to Music/ , or are they to be treated like other creators, which hitherto stay on Main/ ?

They are creators

They are subsets of Live-Action TV

  • #5: Am I right in assuming that Puppet Shows go to Series/ ?

Yes

  • #6: What about “hybrid shows”, i.e. segment shows that incorporate both live action and animation? (e.g. Die Sendung mit der Maus)

The predominant medium. If one is not predominent, chances are good it's a Film.

  • #7: Where to put picture books? I am thinking of books like Der Struwwelpeter and Max and Moritz — books that are really not complete without their illustrations. They are not (yet) ComicBook/s, but to sort them under Literature/ feels a little unsatisfactory too.

Literature. The idea that fiction in books does not have pictures is fairly recent.

  • #8: The rule is to put works into the namespace of their original medium. However, once in a while there is a work which is little known in its original medium, and almost exclusively known by its adaptation. I’m thinking of Das Boot, for example: there's a novel, but it is almost exclusively known by the Petersen movie.

Both. Not sure where you got that rule. A book and a movie are distinctly different things.

  • #9: Should One Book Authors who are invariably tied to a single work be treated as a creator or a work page rather?— Currently, we have Samuel Pepys and Herodotus, but shouldn't these pages be at Literature/The Diary of Samuel Pepys and Literature/The Histories rather?

People are creators. Works are books, films, etc. If there is nothing to say about a person than that they where the author of a particular series, there really isn't enough for a page about them.

  • #10: There are cases where I’m unsure whether to use the English or the original title. Is there are hard rule that determines whether Der Ring des Nibelungen goes to Theatre/Der Ring des Nibelungen or Theatre/The Ring of the Nibelung? Even Wikipedia uses the original title.

Use English, if there is one.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
 4 shimaspawn, Tue, 14th Feb '12 1:39:48 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
What Eddie said, only animated films that are anime go under anime.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Pages about the composer as a creator are Creator pages, but pages just about the composer's musical works would be Music pages. In a perfect wiki, I suppose these would be separate.

Regarding puppet shows, they should be in the medium of performance—so if it's a puppet TV series (which based on just the index, most of them are), it's Live-Action TV; a puppet film like Meet the Feebles, it's a film; and if it's performed live, it's Theatre.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 6 ccoa, Tue, 14th Feb '12 2:43:00 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Why do we organize animated film under Film - Animated, but namespace it under Western Animation?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Thanks Fast Eddie, the response was rather exhaustive.

I've got two points, yet:

  • concerning #1: Does that mean we can/should break up the Disney/ namespace?— The reason I ask: I’m planning to clean out the wicks from the disambiguation page on Main.Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, and if Disney’s Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is bound to be moved to WesternAnimation/, then it would be economical to do it before changing all the wicks.

  • concerning #8: But there are many work pages which cover both the original work and its adaptation(s). I can’t find a reference now, but I read somewhere (must have been in some forum thread) that, in cases when different incarnations of the same work (that is, a source work and its adaptations) share a common page, the page should be in the namespace of the original work’s medium (I’ve handled it this way).

For example, Literature.The Last Of The Mohicans covers both the novel and the film; Literature.Solaris the novel and the two films, and so on.

You can namespace these books and their movie adaptations separately, but this requires that someone actually goes ahead and takes the time to write up a separate page. I come across multi-media pages that combine a work and its adaptation all the time, and I've always put them into the media namespace that fits the original work, rather than splitting them. Different media adaptation sharing the same work page is quite common.

edited 14th Feb '12 2:59:27 PM by LordGro

It's perfectly possible to admire building a cannon to destroy the moon, whilst lamenting the act of destruction.
 8 shimaspawn, Tue, 14th Feb '12 2:59:40 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
1) No on the Disney because they duplicate things up the wazoo. It's there because it collides with everything.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
All right, I'm working on making an ambiguity page for the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise and am I correct in assuming that what is currently on Anime.Yu Gi Oh Tenth Anniversary Movie stays on that namespace and not Film/? If so, how would I handle the first movie, simply called Yu-Gi-Oh!? The second anime is already under the Anime/ namespace (it's by far the most well-known).
 10 shimaspawn, Fri, 17th Feb '12 7:24:59 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
How about chucking it under Anime.Yu Gi Oh The Movie? Just so that it has a separate page.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
[up][up][up][up]For adaptions sharing a page with the original work, I believe you use the original work for the main namespace and the adaption namespace as a redirect (it is how it works for anime/manga, anyway).

If I understand correctly, it's like this:

  • Disney Animated Films = Disney/
  • Anime Films = Anime/
  • Other Animated Films = WesternAnimation/

Is that correct?

edited 19th Feb '12 9:44:12 AM by movie007

 
 13 shimaspawn, Sun, 19th Feb '12 10:08:46 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up] Correct. Unless they're eastern animated films that aren't anime but those are hardly going to come up.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 14 lu 127, Sun, 19th Feb '12 10:10:57 AM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Question: when it comes to folders, do we split Films-Animated and Films-Live Action? Because I've seen it and I don't think it makes sense. Or do we move animated movies to anime and western animation accordingly?

edited 19th Feb '12 10:11:37 AM by lu127

小さく揺れた向日葵
 15 Meta Four, Sun, 19th Feb '12 11:23:30 AM from the house of bread and battle
AXTUCE MUN AXTE INCAL
Yes, we make animated films their own folder in examples. Because, back before the split was made, no one could agree if films like The Incredibles belonged in Film or Western Animation.

edited 19th Feb '12 11:23:53 AM by MetaFour

Thanks for all your answers so far. I have new questions, though:
  • Where does a series published as a pulp magazine go? Magazine/, or Literature/ ?
  • Where's the exact dividing line between Magazines/ and ComicBooks/ ? Is a comic magazine a Magazine, or a Comic Book?

Furthermore, I have a general proposal regarding media namespace questions:

I wrote up a draft for a detailed reference on our use of media namespaces. The list on Namespace is somewhat unsatisfactory, as there are types of works that don't fall obviously in a category from the list, and the delineations of our namespaces are sometimes idiosyncratic. Certain questions are bound to come up again and again and I think a central reference for this kind of questions would be nice.

Sandbox.Media Namespaces Reference

How do you think about it?

edited 20th Feb '12 2:13:56 PM by LordGro

It's perfectly possible to admire building a cannon to destroy the moon, whilst lamenting the act of destruction.
The magazine that publishes the stories would definitely be Magazine/. The stories themselves...I'm not sure. I don't know much about pulp novels. It might be that the serial format is sufficiently different from an ordinary book that it could get its own namespace. The only one I know of is The Shadow (which is a multimedia franchise, so it's still in Main/).

edited 20th Feb '12 2:52:14 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
A short story might occur in any number of different kinds of printed media. The story itself is literature.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
The work I am thinking of with my first question is Perry Rhodan: A series which is published in pulp booklets (at least in its original medium; there are also books which are reworked editions of the booklets). But the booklets are specific to this series, they don't publish anything else.

edited 20th Feb '12 3:12:13 PM by LordGro

It's perfectly possible to admire building a cannon to destroy the moon, whilst lamenting the act of destruction.
Literature. Our classifications are rough and for convenience of the casual reader. It would be unlikely that they would be looking for pamphlets, or broadsheets, or novellas, or any other specific binding scheme. For us, 'literature' is basically 'on paper, not primarily illustrated.'

edited 21st Feb '12 8:38:57 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Also, some stories that began as magazine series were later collected and published as novels.

My question is whether the folders are supposed to exactly match the namespaces. Sometimes I see folders like "Religion" or "Jokes" or "Mythology" or "Folklore, " none of which are media, and I don't know of any namespaces by those names.

I also occasionally see Manhwa, is that the Chinese or Korean equivalent to Manga? Is it a namespace?

edited 21st Feb '12 8:05:35 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Folder labels can be whatever makes sense for them to be. They don't have to match the namespaces.

There isn't a lot on Mangwa talked about on the wiki. The difference from Manga is a bit subtle for casual readers. I mean, it is just a difference in source country, right?

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
 23 Deboss, Tue, 21st Feb '12 10:10:20 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Do you Manwha? Yeah, lumping stuff where you can find it is the purpose of separating by medium. I believe genre was briefly toyed with, but discarded. Technically, we could sort by alphabetical, but you wind up with a lot of mixture.

A nice thing for the wishlist would be an auto sorter that sorts examples by namespace of the work, and has on/off functions for the various mediums. Then people could turn off the types of sections they don't care about like Anime/Manga or Theatre.

edited 21st Feb '12 10:12:52 AM by Deboss

There isn't a lot on Mangwa talked about on the wiki. The difference from Manga is a bit subtle for casual readers. I mean, it is just a difference in source country, right?

The correct spelling is Manhwa, as told above. I don't read much of those but, when I do, I do feel it is somewhat different from a manga. But, yeah, it is much closer to a manga than it is to a american comic, so I feel it is fine to lump the two togehter. And, at last here in west, it has a lot of fandom overlap, for what I can tell, so it is better for the readers for them to be lumped as well.

So, I do not believe the difference is just the source country. But the difference is subtle for a casual reader, and even a non-casual manga reader.

So does that mean that Manhwa and Manhua (Chinese comics) go not only into the "Manga" folder, but also into the Manga/ namespace?

Btw, what do you think about my Sandbox.Media Namespaces Reference? (Don't know if that's the best title, but it could be changed.) Is it a page we should have? (I think so.) And if yes, what should/could be improved?
It's perfectly possible to admire building a cannon to destroy the moon, whilst lamenting the act of destruction.
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