The Constructive Criticism Thread

OK, I apologize for taking so long to get around to this, events in the real world are distracting me (we're suffering from an extended power outage here).

If I had one overall recommendation to make, it would be to try to avoid "Telling, not Showing." The very first sentence is a good illustration: "The winds of change howled across the land. It was a sight to behold, or so the Thief Lord thought." Now, this opening sounds cool, but it's not good writing. The reader has no idea what this wind looks like or why s/he should care. Better practice, esp. in an opener, is to create a vivid visual impression that acts as a hook of the reader's interest, and also serves as a metaphore for the overall theme of the story (in this case, the Thief Lord is going to try to change the world like a destructive wind). Describe the wind, let us see it, hear what it sounds like, describe the effect it has on objects in it's path.

The rest of the opening paragraph is obviously the Thief Lord thinking to himself, which works ok in terms of introducing the reader to the story and setting the scene. The battle is, once again, described and not shown. The reader needs to see the thunder coming down on the hapless soldiers, feel their pain, hear their screams, observe their expressions as they are betrayed by their leader. You want the reader to identify with Gannondorf's victims on an emotional level, so that they will take him seriously as a villain.

There is no need to go over each chapter in detail, I would just be giving you the same advice over and over. The first line in chapter two can be deleted, it doesnt add anything. Open with Alastar running and huffing through a castle's hallways, skidding around corners and pushing himself ever faster. We don't need to hear him think that he's in a hurry, we need to see it. I dont feel this is the place for an info dump on Alastar's background, leave that for later. Here we just need to know that he's young, he's desperate to get somewhere, and there is a battle raging around him. Every delay should make him ever more frustrated- the bomb isn't dangerous because it could have hurt him, it's dangerous because it slowed him down. Same with the creature he encounters in the next paragraph. We should hear Alastar's heart hammering as he hides because every second delay could mean it's too late! No need to even describe where he is going or why he wants to get there, all that becomes obvious once he arrives in the keep.

The entire flashback-dialogue with his superior that he remembers should be deleted- it adds nothing to the scene. The reader already knows what is happening because we saw it in the previous chapter.

Zelda is not described well enough for such an important character. The overall impression that I get is a kind of "anti-Gannon", someone who feels very loyal to her followers and would never betray anyone. Which is fine so far as it goes, but the problem is that this isn't sufficient to establish her as a character. She needs more, and you have to use Alastar (the point of view character) as your means of developing her.

We need to see what Alastar sees when he looks at her. That means you have to decide how he really feels about her, deep inside. Does he see her as a mother figure, nurturing and protecting the realm? Then he will see those features of her that most appear matronly- she will be taller than him, bosomy, not too attractive but her face will have a mature expression, and overall she will impress him as calm and reassuring. Or is there more of a physical attraction- in which case he will notice rather different features, her figure, her face, her skin and so forth. She will appear surprisingly young, fierce maybe, and determined (like him). Or maybe you have something else in mind. Whatever you decide, we need to know how Alastar sees Zelda, since she's the reason he's there, and some sort of emotional connection between them (even if it's all in his mind) creates more dramatic tension for the reader.

Overall, there is a lot of potential in this story. The most interesting feature so far is that Gannon is able to plausibly rationalize to himself that he's the victim, and his opponents are the bad guys. It makes him just a little more interesting that your average video game big boss. Keep working at it, I think with a little improvement in your writing style, this story could be really compelling. Good luck.

Thank you so much! All right, I got two critiques, and they were quite in depth. I did not focus so much on Zelda, as she is basically a predecessor for the present Zelda. However, your points do make sense, as they could still used in the story. Part of Zelda's character is the duty of living up to her predecessor, after all.

Like I said before, the earlier chapters are my most choppy ones, but I feel that if you guys think that they have some potential, even when I wrote them when I was learning how to create a story, then by all means I should try and edit them.

From what I gather, my weak points are the "show don't tell" aspect in certain parts, along with a need to improve my prose. All right, I think I have gotten better at prose along the years, and I can certainly go back and edit these chapters and continue. Very well then! Thanks for the feedback.

Quick question, will I be able to submit another thing I wrote for this?

There's no limit on how many times you can submit the same story, the same story part, or parts from a previous story- a submission is a submission. You'll just have to wait your turn again.

Polarity, as your turn started two weeks ago today, I'll end your turn when I get home from work. Snowy Foxes is up next.

I mean a different story. Will I be able to submit it the same way I did for the last one?

Yes. A submission is a submission. The procedure for submitting a request for feedback is the same for everybody, every time, no matter what story or amount you want critique on.

All righty then, Peace out

Have a good one! (Got sidetracked by Breath of the Wild again.) Snowy's been PMed.

This is Born of Light [link redacted, available via PM only].I was going to put Chapter One in a separate document for you guys, but keeping everything in one place is a lot easier for me when it comes to editing. All I'm saying is don't feel obligated to read the whole thing because what's really important to me right now is Chapter One.

I pounded all of this out to amuse myself during a time when I was feeling frustrated and bored with the stories I was supposed to be working on for a creative writing class last semester, but I have done some light editing since then. Given that this thing's creation was so rushed, right now I'm mainly concerned about macro-level stuff like how effectively Chapter One works as an introduction and how the main characters (mostly Friedrich and Violet, as well as Michael and Sascha if you get that far) are coming off.

I already know that I really need to get working on figuring out the intricacies of Ibraic culture and be more specific/ consistent about the level of persecution they face in the Republic. They're quite new features to my worldbuilding compared to the rest, so there's a lot to develop and shuffle around. I got a lot of intriguing suggestions from other folks this week and more are definitely welcome. I've pretty much solidified the origins of their religion in ancient times and their history as a people, but their current status under the Republic and what their culture has become as a result of the persecution they face is constantly in flux in my mind.

Thanks in advance!

edited 25th Jun '17 7:24:31 PM by SnowyFoxes

Hey, SnowyFoxes. I'll take a gander, since no one else has for a few days. I kind of thought someone would over the time it took me to fly from Australia to the US... (Am I allowed to? Don't care. Rules are something to break.) I notice that you put a lot of description into the short, stocky woman but you don't talk about the taller woman very much. Adding more details could be good, as well as spacing the details between lines of dialog so readers don't have to slog their way through paragraphs of the stuff. It's something I struggle with a good deal, so I know what to look for. In example, you could both describe the woman's hair and have her first words in one fell swoop by writing, '"Good morning, doctor!" the woman said, running a hand through her greasy, dark hair.' A phrase that stands out to me is 'magical body modification'. To me, 'magical' seems like an unnecessary buzzword unless the setting is predominantly NON-magical. If it's a fantasy setting that uses magic more than science, the characters would just say 'body modification'. You can elucidate the magic later. I really like it, overall! It's really good. One last thing. In the first-person perspective, no matter what tense, laying out the narrator's thoughts is a good way to both give an insight to their personality, their surroundings, and it's good filler. Writing something like, 'I was overcome with a sense of pity as I watched her struggle around the sparsely decorated room' shows that the narrator is compassionate (and possibly a bit arrogant), that the other person is awkward, and that there isn't much to see, all at the same time. Hope this helped.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:24:56 AM by TheAphid

I want to start out by saying that I really like this story. It's all about the characters, who are well developed and believable. The setting is important, and has a strong impact on the story, but it's something happening in the background, where it belongs. It shapes the characters' choices without drawing attention to itself. The plot is extremely simple, yet enough to get things going. Easy, flowing dialogue is hard to do, and you carry it off well. There's even some really good lines:

"The Light will guide me," I said curtly. Even if there were days when I doubted if that was the case, there was no other answer to give. It was true whether I believed it or not.

Is probably my favorite. Another thing I liked: it's really hard to communicate information to the reader that the main character himself isn't aware of, particularly while using first person, as you are. For the most part, you pull this off between Anna, who clearly has a crush on Frederick, and Frederick himself, who hasn't a clue, until the very end of their dialogue. You pulled that off well. I even see some deeper things. "Ibraic" is a metaphore for Judaism, yes? Your characters' "educated yet persecuted" minority status so closely resembles that of the Jews in Victorian times that I assume the parallel is deliberate. All that was just in Chapter 1, which is as far as I got.

There are some grammatical issues that you should look out for. Occasionally you fall into an informal conversational tone that is more appropriate for our times than the more conservative setting you are describing here. "There was no way that was natural" is an example from page 1. "No way" is not an expression I would expect your protagonist to use. There are a few other modern anachronisms that stand out. How Violet knows about viruses, the use of "yeah" instead of "yes", that sort of thing.

Also, the setting might be a little too much in the background. There is a frustrating lack of visual imagery to go along with your otherwise well-written scenes. There is just a hint of too much telling and not enough showing. The narrator tells us that the morning was chilly, but we dont see any physical evidence of it. No one shivers on the front stoop, he doesn't curse the poorly working radiator, that sort of thing. I don't know what the houses look like, was the sky clear or overcast, what the food smells like, etc.

This is even more frustrating in regards to the characters. We know the narrator has grey hair, and is in his thirties, but is he tall or short, thick or thin, quick or slow? The clothes someone wears, the facial expressions they normally have, their gestures, are all supposed to be symbolic of the character's personality. For example, I might suggest that Frederick should take the time to overdress when he answers the door, even more so than someone normally would, because that would better reflect his emotional repression, and make a greater contrast between himself and Violet, whose clothes reflect the chaos that she finds herself in, her attitude of adapt and survive.

I am presuming that all the newspaper headlines are foreshadowing, and that Amsel will eventually enter the narrative, so I wont comment on that yet.

Otherwise there isnt that much to say. This is really well done, and I'm definitely going to read the rest of it when I get the chance. Thanks for sharing your work.

edited 20th Mar '17 9:18:44 AM by DeMarquis

Many thanks to both of you! Really glad you liked it. All the description stuff is a consistent issue with my writing unfortunately but hopefully I can work that out with more edits.

I read the whole thing, and mostly agree with what's already been said. I'll refrain from commenting on the characterization, as is usual. Something that only stood out after I finished the whole thing was the description- or rather, how little I mind that there's not much description. The story reads smoothly and is paced fast enough that nothing outside of some minor typos (which I marked) caught my eye or made me stop long enough to really think about how there wasn't much description. Of course, the lack of visual description and the fact that I know already that the setting is Victorian Europe-inspired might be why it seemed so fast, or almost like a heist thriller. I'm not sure... that's my two cents.

Also, your turn ends officially in about six hours. Since it's past midnight here, I'll do that when I wake up tomorrow.

I've been up for about six hours, but then I decided to boot up Breath of the Wild instead. Ah, well. Too Many Ideas is up.

Here's Wardove. I mostly need feedback with big picture stuff, like plot, dialogue, description and characterization. If you do notice any really glaring typographical errors, though, do bring them up. Thanks in advance.

Could you change the sharing settings on the doc so that comments are allowed? Currently, it's view-only. It's much easier for people to point out specific bits and catch typos if they can mark them right on the doc.

Done, ready for your commenting pleasure.

Is it kosher to give Snowy my feedback in this thread after the other person is up? I wrote almost 500 words before I realized the next person was up. Or should I just send a PM to Snowy?

Make it a PM.

Concerning "Wardove":

I've only read the first page, but I do have some comments about the description and dialogue.

I like that we start with this sense of urgency and danger. You might hear people talk about "start on a moving train," and I think you do that in this piece. That said, the description of the setting seems inconsistent with the tone of the piece. The character seems to be in a state of emergency or fear — and Audrey certainly is — but the sentences and descriptions are relatively long. Short sentences can give readers the impression of anxiety or emergency, especially in first-person narrations where we are inside the character's mind. This sense of urgency is conveyed well in the dialogue, where the characters speak in short sentences. And while I understand that the narrator is trying to act calm around his sister, I don't think his internal dialogue or narration would be equally calm.

Further separating the reader from the sense of urgency is the narrator's sarcastic comments about innocuous details in the setting, such as the ugly wallpaper. I think it is good to have some descriptions about the physical setting to help ground readers, but the length of these descriptions will tend to give readers the impression that the narrator is not scared. My point is that there seems to be a discrepancy — he seems worried when he speaks, but not when he thinks.

There is a notably odd paragraph at the end of the first page. The narrator says Audrey's hands are "innocent, little hands," and then says "the description fits her. Everything about Audrey is innocent." The reason I think this is odd is primarily the idea of "Show, Don't Tell." Your readers will hopefully see that Audrey is an innocent through the actions she makes and the things that she says.

Thanks for the feedback! This was my first time really giving first-person present-tense a fair shot, so that's probably why I wasn't great at showing more than telling and making the protagonist less calm. Speaking of which, perhaps I need to make it more clear on the first page who she is—she's actually supposed to be female.

Is there anything else from anyone? Sorry if I seem impatient, I'm really not aiming for that. I'm just curious since it's been a few days.

Sorry! I've been meaning to take a look at it but I've been juggling some things lately. I'll try and have a look at it in the next few days.

Hmm. I'm going to have to disagree with Water Blap (sorry Waterblap). I think the contrast between the spoken dialogue and the internal narration adds a depth to the story. If the reader never gets to disengage from the action you will burn them out rather fast. This way, it's more like Run, Take a Breath, Run, then another Breath, which is more or less what the two characters are doing. Frequently, people who have experienced an emergency situation describe time slowing down, and a sense of detachment almost as if they were off to one side observing what they themselves were doing. So the mindset that you create with your narrative style does in fact fit with what many people would experience in the same situation.

I also liked the little details like the wallpaper, or Audrey's hands. Details are what anchor you in the reality of the setting. Focusing in little details is also something I recall people experiencing in real life emergencies. It's like your mind can't stand the big picture anymore, so it scales down to something mundane. I think your narrative approach is fine.

The only thing that jarred me is the scene right at the end. Unless these soldiers were completely incompetent at firing their weapons, they would not miss at that range. I suggest that the soldiers check them while they are still in their car, which gets wrecked as they try to escape.

I'm also not sure I understand why the gov't doesn't have it's own psychics. Is there some reason why all of them seem to be on the same side? Will this be explained later on?

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply the details concerning the wallpaper or Audrey's hands were "bad" or that I "disliked" them. Rather there is something about the length of the focus on them that is odd from a writing POV (as opposed to a reader's POV).

And yeah, it's fine that we disagree. I think that's a good point about not constantly be "running," but I would have liked the momentum to continue from the opening paragraph.

I think it's fine that specific details like her gender aren't mentioned or alluded to in the first page.

EDIT: Ah, damn it, sorry. Must've misread the rules. I'll back off now. Please disregard this.

edited 30th Mar '17 8:25:55 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest