The Constructive Criticism Thread

If you want to, you can check out chapters 1 and 2 when you have time.

If no one else is going to comment of Sugar's work, then I think it's time to move on to the next person on the list. For the record, It's been three weeks since Sugar's turn started and two or three days since the last time she received feedback.

So, if no one objects to that, I'll proceed to contact Ewolf2015 at 6:00 p.m. (CST) since that's the only other person who has put their name on the list.^note Not to mention she's been waiting forever to get feedback on her works.

thanks but I must remind you my screenplay is a work in progress so it's subject to change.

Well, if it wasn't a work in progress you wouldn't be here, right?

If you think we could help you polish your work then post it and tell us what you need help with.

well, I'm concern with few thing you might find out later and also did you read the script? if ya didn't here's the link here ya go

edited 9th Nov '16 4:34:34 PM by ewolf2015

For the future, Ewolf, don't feel obligated to show us previous drafts- show us whatever draft of yours is closest to the final product.

So I read half of the 'revised version'. I'm getting the distinct impression that I'm not the target audience, so I'm going to refrain from saying too much about its artistic aspects. To start things off, what genre are you aiming for? Something YA genre-esque aimed at middle schoolers? Something Animesque? And what specific concerns do you have about this piece that you'd like us to focus on, in addition to anything else we see?

One thing that caught my eye, though, was the butterfly smiling in the dream. If the butterfly actually has a human face, I'd make sure that's clear in the script, because normal butterflies kind of have curly straws for mouths. I tried to Google up a picture, but they all freak me out too much.

edited 9th Nov '16 5:11:59 PM by CrystalGlacia

i guess for middle schoolers and it is a bit animesque i guess? so what did you like and what things should i fix in the future? ps. how can i also get adults to enjoy this as well?

edited 9th Nov '16 5:23:15 PM by ewolf2015

I wanted a bit more feedback on my revised story (Inigo was the only one who gave feedback on the revision), but other people are waiting and we're already moving on so I'm not gonna complain.

That's alright. Maybe next time? And also, can someone answer my question.

This reads like a mix between an anime middle school and the kind of schools portrayed in YA literature. I'm not a fan of either genre, so... in other words, I'm not a huge fan of what I've read so far, and I can't even come up with any good suggestions for altering the content that wouldn't radically change the story.

BUT.

I asked this because no matter what you're writing, whether it's a personal story, a paper for school, or a work email, always know who you intend to be reading it and write in a way that appeals to those people. Don't look at how I feel about your genre of choice and assume you need to redo this from the ground up to please me, think about who reads middle school YA fiction and why they like it. Mostly middle schoolers, right? Think about who likes Animesque stories and why people like them- people who like anime, right? Knowing who you're writing to will change how you write the story, and can change even the course of the story itself. I don't have any advice on how to get something like this to appeal to adults, but know that lacking Multiple Demographic Appeal does not make a story bad. If you read my comments to Sugarp1e, you should know that it's hard to make writing that deliberately tries to mimic the feel of watching anime appeal to people who don't like anime.

On that note, while the actual content of what you're writing doesn't appear to be inherently bad in itself, the way it's written still has some grammar problems and is generally choppy.

One piece of advice I can offer on that front is to read aloud everything you write- I don't mean reading aloud like you're reading to a room full of children, just try whispering it to yourself or try to hear it spoken in your head. The point is that you should hear and try to say everything you write- while writing just this post, whenever I stopped, I'd either whisper to myself what I wanted to write next, or whisper-read what I've already written. Hearing descriptive passages and dialogue spoken aloud is one of the easiest ways to create writing that sounds natural and like something a person would say, and is also a pretty effective way to catch grammar mistakes. When you whisper-read your writing, you'll know if it's choppy or grammatically incorrect because it will sound weird to say, you'll find yourself stopping mid-sentence to figure out what you're reading, and it will be difficult to read in general.

There's my two cents, does that help?

edited 10th Nov '16 5:40:47 AM by CrystalGlacia

pretty much but I was severely disappointed about the advice you've written. but, what you gave me might really help me in the long run. but I have to add that this seemed like a grammar suggestion, not a "story" suggestions. I know I shouldn't please everyone but I want something that adults can read without cringing to death.

note: for the love of god just do it, as long as it retains the middle schooler kind of thing, I'd be happy.

another note: since I gloss over grammar errors so much that I can barely notice it for myself. could you put very specific examples that I can fix? so that maybe I can have a basic understanding of what you're talking about.

edited 10th Nov '16 6:22:09 AM by ewolf2015

It was a grammar/technical suggestion. Technique (grammar, spelling, formatting, presentation) is near-universal no matter what genre you read.

I'm not comfortable with offering you story or characterization advice because I don't personally like the genres you've chosen. I don't know anything about making YA Animesque fiction about middle-schoolers in particular good, outside of general advice like the above that applies to all fiction, so why should I give you advice about a genre and demographic that I personally don't know anything about?

There's the opening paragraph. I don't have time to mark up the whole rest of the piece, but there's errors like these all throughout the half I read. There's contradictory descriptions, extraneous/redundant words, missing articles (like 'the'- I added it in green -near the end), and tense errors throughout. You seem like you can't decide whether you want to use present or past tense- find a tense and stick with it. I think present tense is conventional in scripts, but look it up and make sure.

thanks for the advice and I understand sharing characterization ideas might not be something your use to. yet, the point of constructive criticism is highlight what areas to improve on. I'm just asking you how I can at least try to appeal to older audiences. I don't always want to aim for kids only, sometimes I would love to figure out how older peeps like parents or teens could get into it.

What you're doing is great and I appreciate the critique, even it was a bit...vague in my opinion. funny that we're both giving each other critiques.

edited 10th Nov '16 7:38:26 AM by ewolf2015

I hate to post again but should I use present tense or past tense?

edited 10th Nov '16 7:51:56 AM by ewolf2015

Which tense comes more naturally to you?

Do you want to bring the readers along with main characters on their journey (present tense) or just tell them a story (past tense)?

I'm not saying that present tense is better, just that present tense tends to be more immersive than past tense in my opinion.

For the record, I haven't finished reading your script yet (my printer ran out of ink and I didn't wanna go out because it's been raining all day ).

Ahem, anyway... the publishing house where I work focuses mostly on educational material and fiction for children and teenagers, so I get to work with a lot of authors whose target readership is similar or the same as yours, and whenever one of our authors asks us what to do so adults also like their books, we always give them the same answer: you can't, so don't even try.

After they stop cursing at us ^note children's literature writers tend to be rather foulmouthed >.> we explain that they shouldn't worry so much about potential demographics because, at the end of the day, age rarely determines what a person may or may not like.

You see, although we divide our catalogue by age brackets (0-4 y/o, 5-6 y/o, 12+ y/o, etc), we do it mostly based on the language used, the complexity of the text itself and, sometimes, on the themes within the novel itself. For example, even though many children would enjoy The Hobbit, we know a 6 year old kid might not even understand it or might find it boring if it's not an illustrated version.

What we've find, on the other hand, is that genre is far more important. According to our sales department, one of our books in the 9-10 y/o bracket is rather popular among adults because it's a fantasy book.

Now, as to not be a total jerk about it, one thing these wide-appeal works have in common is that the characters are complex and they show good character development during the work itself. So, a good way to make your work appealing for older audiences might be to create three dimensional characters.

Still, I believe it's better to focus on a target demographic at a time. And if you get a Periphery Demographic then treat it a bonus. :)

By the way, I'm no expert on scripts, but I am told they must always be written in present tense. I was told you've got to imagine you're giving instructions and not just telling a story.

this is for a cartoon and thank you for the feedback. but i have several questions.

• how can i make my characters complex without hurting my head.
• how can actually make my dialogue feel less forced and more natural.
• and finally, from what you read so far, is meh or good?

also why did you need to print it out?

edited 10th Nov '16 2:53:37 PM by ewolf2015

I'm not the critiquing type so I'll just answer your first bullet points.

Try adding a character trait you normally wouldn't expect from that sort of character, but still believable enough that it doesn't come off as contradictory. For example, would you expect a Badass to have Anxiety Disorder?

Try basing the dialogue off of what you would expect to hear from that character in a real world conversation. It's a little harder to pull off if your too emotionally detached to socialize but it's still worth a shot.

with the dialogue part, it's true that I'm a bit socially detached so I might not be able to pull it off.

Sit in a cafe or other public place and let yourself overhear the conversations going on around you. Thats one good way to learn.

I did that before. Sadly, I forgot half of what was said.

Take a notebook. Write it down.

The notebook thing I can do it just that since I live in a black school, most of the conversations for me personally, come off as too slang-riddled for a decent, normal conversation. That being said, most of my character's act in a race-neutral way which means none of them would act in ways that are considered stereotypical. And with a setting that takes place in the northeast, I wouldn't be expecting much of the southern slang I grew up with unless the character in question was from the south.

Lastly, is this an actual method used by most writers? Of course not of all they might use it but seems like a commonly suggested thing for anyone. Which puts me and anyone kinda like me at a disadvantage since they have relied on more believable forms media to make it more natural. I guess my crippling shyness is the reason behind my godawful dialogue in the first place. I never managed to have the chance to actually sit down hear two actual people having a conversation without distractions of any kind. Might as well shove this project aside and call it quits. I'm just not quite fit for this line of work. Sorry for coming off as a quitter but that's truth and honestly sucks that I'm abandoning the project that for years I've wanted to out there. Now I'm just typing up a post on how practically noob at everything.

I just can't do it, guys. I'm sorry. But at least you were able to put me on a path of learning that I might consider embarking on sooner or later. :) (note it doesn't mean the critique is over because I need to wrap my story up.)

edited 12th Nov '16 10:42:24 AM by ewolf2015

The art of writing calls you, dude. You'll come back to it.

thanks