The Constructive Criticism Thread

Once again, same old schtick: If you can PM the text, I'll try to say something vaguely intelligent and/or helpful.

I've been working on my webcomic for a while and I'm finally ready to start sharing it around. Anyone care to let me know how I'm doing so far and what I can improve on? Besides the art - believe me, I know it needs work, and I'm doing the best I can. http://www.remuscomic.com/

Have you read the first post of this thread, Kyle?

Ah, sorry, didn't see the waiting list.

So... Whose turn is it? The thread seems to have stalled.

Sorry: I've not been as active as I could have been. I was a bit preoccupied in trying to get my competition story into some form of shape. -.- (Failed: it refused to stop being a schmaltzy Woman's Weekly piece - for all my sins.)

I've read dragon's piece, but I have absolutely nothing new to add to what the others said, and I didn't want increase her review count.

I'll take a snap at it, hold on.

Okey dokey:

The tone and the words don't match up at all times. At first he's supposed to sound...nostalgic, I guess? But then you get weirdo lines, like the "briefly aspired to lose virginity" thing, as mentioned before. Everything seems kind of...meticulous, analyzed, and not at all like a memory lookback. Also, since it's one paragraph, it kinda comes at you rapid fire, and really doesn't have much of an impact.

Also, the switch between monologue and actual actions is...jarring. To me at least.

Stuff like that. You might wanna separate it more, unless you're going for stream of consciousness.

Also, might I reccomend a different font for the texting?

The pacing is a bit...odd. With all the monologuing, this sudden jump:

Also, this seems a bit...devoid of chemistry, I guess? I mean, I dunno, there is no body language, just dialogue, so it makes it a bit sterile. To me. Plus, to me it seems like a rather boring conversation, since we don't really know the tone of this.

Except you didn't show them laughing previously, so this is all tellingish. We saw some memories, but we didn't get any indication of joy from it.

Finally, the lack of any spark once again seems to be a problem for me, but I can't really place it properly. Possibly the fact that we don't entirely see the emotions behind the conversation, but it could be because that romance isn't exactly my thing (or whatever you wanna call it), so yeah.

Would the end of jewelleddragon's turn be today or tomorrow?

Not sure. In any case, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could possibly PM me jewelleddragon's story—preferably herself—seeing as I am (as stated before) unable to use Google Docs and would prefer not to reach my turn without having participated in the previous one.

Added myself to the list, I think. Sorry if I messed up in any way. I didn't delete anything and added my name at the bottom, so hopefully I'm good, but...well, sorry if you have to do something to add your name to the list. I read the rules, but I still feel uneasy.

Sorry for the trouble. I'll correct whatever mistake I might have made.

edited 8th Mar '12 4:21:50 PM by FakeCrowley

I'm not the authority here, but critique someone between then and now and everyone will be cool.

Sorry, JHM, I'm a flake. I'm sending it now.

Ah, I see.

In that case, I'll review Dragon's story.

"Teddy," is a rather interesting character, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad, namely as I'm not entirely sure what you're going for. Instead of criticizing or praising you, I'm just going to be frank and tell you who he seems like, and you can decide how you feel about that yourself.

He's somewhat awkward. I don't mean his lines seem artificial—I just mean that he's, shall we say, not the most suave guy around. Not to the extent of, say, being unable to function socially, but his narration shows him to be somewhat clever and wordy, whereas his dialogue betrays that he isn't like that in real life—meaning, of course, that he has an easier time reflecting and observing himself than he does when he's, well, on the spot. This format is typically used to show that someone has social differences, aspergers especially but not neccesarily, and in this case betrays a mild social awkwardnes—though possibly only involving Clara, which would actually make a lot of sense.

Another indicator of his quasi-aspergers is his actual narration. While eloquent, he doesn't clear up a whole lot—he mentions the shirt pressing as an aside and doesn't explain it till later, he uses a lot of colloquialisms and whatnot that the layman might not understand, doesn't mention his fiancee, and generally seems to presume that the audience knows what he knows. This is actually really impressive, assuming it was intentional—it's kinda clever, to be honest.

Clara is boring. That's all I have to say about her. She's, well...a plot device. Nothing more. I'll grant you that maybe Teddy thinks we understand all the great things about her and doesn't even realize that we might not "get" her, or maybe it was intentional for some other reason, but I've already given you a lot of benefit of the doubt and I'm not sure how much I'm willing to give more. She moves the story along, but beyond that I won't be kept up at night wondering what'll happen to her next. I just don't care. I mean, yeah, Teddy is kinda self centered (Not neccesarily arrogant, but introverted) and might not notice other people as well, but in that case you should try to deal with that at some point or turn this into a monologue. I don't ken if this is a short story or part of a larger piece, but I'm guessing the former, so that's that.

The plot is...well, I don't see the point of it. If it's part of a longer piece, then yes, but assuming what you wrote is just a short story, then I don't have any advice to make it better, because you're better off just starting from scratch. That might be cruel, I dunno, but the main thing I got from this story was Teddy, who I find to be an interesting and well written character, with some external events helping his monologue along. The plot is really just a setting for his thoughts, and in times even gets in the way of it.

In short, I like Anthony and his dialogue. Clara and what she brings to the plot are somewhat useful filler, and I could care less what happens if this isn't actually part of a longer piece.

I might go back and criticize individual lines, but frankly, this was most of the important stuff. A few lines are awkward, a few are funny, but I'm not here to review anything specific.

I guess it was unclear that this is part of a longer story. It's the first scene.

Thanks for the criticism, everyone. Clara really is a plot device; anyone have suggestions about how to make her feel like more of an independent character, given that she and Anthony do have to hook up by the end of the scene?

edited 8th Mar '12 8:20:47 PM by jewelleddragon

Ah, my apologies.

I take all related complaints/comments back, then.

In which case, I suppose I can only say that it depends on where the story is going. As far as opening scenes go, it could use some work and I've, again, been more hooked onto Anthony's personality and narration, so I'd recommend something that helps us care about him more. I'm going to be frank: It's rare to start a story off through an encounter with another character. There are two ways to start a story with a hook, and you've somehow avoided both of them—you can either start it with action, or you can start it with pure monologue. You've started it with an encounter between the protagonist and a plot-significant character. This is not a good thing. We've been introduced to the story too early, gone past the opening scenes and lead right into the tension sequence. Which is, you know. Not good.

My only advice is to add something that helps us get to know Teddy between the text message and his meeting with Clara. Like, a chapter's worth. It's that or scrapping it.

Sorry for being rude.

FYI, there is now a link to this thread here. Many thanks to Madrugada.

I'm damnably sorry for being late to the party here, and doubly sorry that I don't have too much of salience to say. I'll try, though. As I might...

Basically, I agree with a lot of the points that Fake Crowley has already made, in particular those regarding Clara's paucity of character: I can see her as someone more fleshed out, as there are certain aspects to her description which are actually very interesting (the explanation for taking poly-sci, for instance), but the rest is cardboard; elaborating on those and building from them a person who would act that way in the first place—and so move the plot by dint of who they are rather than simply what they do—would do you well. The fact that there is no indication as to whether this is a standalone work or not also threw me—it feels like part of a longer story, perhaps a novelette, and it ends like a chapter, but the architecture is very short story-like, and even then strangely condensed, as if you're summarising the events rather than showing them as they are. Rather, it's like you're novelising a film script, strictly to whit.

Which is not, I think, to know your writing itself, which has a pretty good grasp on thought process without actually being stream-of-consciousness. Also, while I'm not crazy about Teddy/Anthony's narration—third person limited would make a better fit to the tone of the work—I like how well you know him. That said, I want to know him better. Show me him.

(Also, for some reason, Anthony reminds me a lot of Richard Mayhew, but not in a bad or derivative way. Far-fetched, perhaps? Read the beginning of Neverwhere again, or just read it if you haven't already; you'll probably see what I'm getting at pretty quickly. If you don't, then I am insane, but nonetheless: Your characterisation, where not thin or vague, reminds me of Gaiman.)

So, all in all, not bad, but definitely in need of improvement.

P.S. Holy crap, I actually said something not entirely stupid! I feel like I just won something.

edited 10th Mar '12 6:57:52 PM by JHM

All right, I know that double-posting is not something to be encouraged, but this is an entirely independent thought...

So, here's my piece.

It is a monologue of sorts, and completely out-of-context; that said, I think that it speaks for itself.

edited 13th Mar '12 3:28:00 PM by JHM

@JHM: First, blank lines between paragraphs would be nice, if that's possible.

Anyways, the meat and potatoes. Thought at the first paragraph: I have no idea why, but I envision the speaker as a gay man. Though it could be a Ladette. Something in the tone, though, says "gay man."

Oh... huh, I was right! I have no goddamn idea how I pegged the speaker like that, but congratulations, you did something right.

Finished reading. Here we have a very screwed up individual — so says Captain Obvious. And the relationship between Emil and Philip... I can't quite peg it. Friends, lovers, fuck buddies? It's not obvious from just this excerpt, though you might consider that acceptable, since it is just an excerpt.

A bit more action in the monologue would help, unless you have a specific artistic reason for sprinkling actions in so sparsely.

"Not a thing with feathers" is a weird metaphor, a bit jarring. Again, if that's the plan, go for it, otherwise, find another.

I can't really place what Emil is feeling by the end. Self-loathing? Contempt for all humanity? Horror at how hardened he's become? You don't have to spoon-feed us Emil's emotions, but something more than "half-choked, hoarse, softer still" to describe the tone would help. Perhaps you could throw in some body language?

You could also afford to expand on what Emil means by "You both come out dead a little." It's a metaphor you can risk weakening by over-explaining, but some more on it wouldn't hurt.

edited 13th Mar '12 4:55:52 PM by KillerClowns

The connection between Emil and Philip is difficult to explain, but to put it simply, they are travelling together, but do not know each other very well. Hence the perplexity in Philip's expression: He has basically been all but cornered by a (very drunk, very miserable) near-stranger with no polite out.

"Hope is the thing with feathers" is an expression you sometimes here. Emil is referencing that, but in a very odd way due to his intoxication and general issues.

It's a little of all of the above. He doesn't like other people, but he really doesn't like himself.

Thank you for the suggestions. I shall keep them in mind.

P.S. Added clearer paragraph separation to make up for the lack of indents.

edited 13th Mar '12 5:15:52 PM by JHM

In the beginning, you use a certain American slang term, which makes the rest of the piece look like it's trying way too hard to be English and it loses much of its impact as a result. I don't know if it slipped through the cracks or what, which is why I'm not telling you what it is at the moment.

Take out "pensively", "confused", and "relish". Replace them with details and actions.

The dialogue is fairly good, except for the one part. It's an interesting snippet. You can go far with some polishing.

The biggest problem I have is that there is absolutely no mention of what their surroundings are. Are they sitting on brand spanking-new chrome chairs in the moddest of clubs? Is one of them shifting his weight about on a creaky bar-stool, in a pub that hasn't changed since the 1880s? Is there classical music at a wine and cheese bar, artsy songs they can talk quietly under, are they straining to be heard over a match?

If you're referring to that particular use of the word "screw," it is neither an American idiom (it was a London cant term) or a recent one (the earliest recorded use is c.1725), though the specific use is, yes, somewhat more of an American thing than an English thing; even so, it's not out of character for the speaker to say use idiom in that kind of curious fashion. And that's not taking into account the matter of setting... but I digress. It sounds like I'm trying to justify something when I'm really just trying to explain the situation. Which should not be necessary here.

Also, I'm not trying to sound British. It's how I write. Granted, it probably comes of reading a lot of Machen, but it's not an affectation.

I understand the concern with the adjectives, though how I might alter them is something I would really have to think on. "Pensively" is a great shorthand word for a very particular kind of expression: Not the complete furrowed brow of concern or the blankness of meditation, but something poised loosely in between. (Maybe I'll use that... somewhere.)

The scene is set earlier on and is not lingered upon after a certain point. But I see your point: A lack of physical context does make things more confusing.

edited 14th Mar '12 5:46:36 PM by JHM

Why are you putting everything in spoilers?

The point is, "screw" was recently adopted in American vernacular and this appears modern enough to be upheld to that. Not to mention, if it did not seem out of character I wouldn't have mentioned it. You can either add more uses of odd slang, Russian or Japanese or whatever to support your point, or take this one out.

Do not use "shorthand" words unless it's a very rough-draft and you're pressed for time. The point of not using them is to exercise your abilities for actual description, which you are perfectly capable of.

Even if the scene is set earlier and does not "linger", people still interact with their environments in a way unique to that particular environment as they speak. But the fact is, putting an info-dump at the beginning seems like lazy writing to me, and you shot yourself in the foot by cutting it out. It is nowadays more acceptable to set the scene gradually by putting bits and pieces here and there.