Rename: NEW CROWNER (Alt Titles 12-28-12): Asian Gal With White Guy

It's not completely different, though. It's part of the same powerful white dude/submissive asian woman archetype. Submission and power including the exchange of money for sex.

Asian Gal with White Guy is what I see everywhere every time I walk the streets of Manhattan. It's not a trope. Me Love You Long Time is.

Asian Hooker Stereotype is indeed a valid trope. So lets make it. I have now started a thread for it on YKTTW.

As for Asian Gal with White Guy, it is a stereotype in it's own right and thus a valid trope. If we were to get rid of it (and there's really no point in that), the solution is to cut it. Not to replace the description and example list with some entirely different trope based on a mostly different stereotype.

• Asian women and white men have the hots for each other = one stereotype.
• Asian women are whores who shouldn't be respected = completely different stereotype, although there of course is some overlap.

Returning to the issue of titles that sound like dialogue, the restriction is rather new. Old titles that doesn't meet the new demands are still around, but they do get replaced one after another. We are moving away from that kind of titles. Making new ones or re-implementing discarded old ones is not okay.

A while ago I launched a trope called Our Fans Are Better, and Fast Eddie quickly mailed me to inform me that such titles are no longer acceptable. He asked me for an alternate title, and I Suggested Fan Flattering or Flattering The Fans. He opted for the former one and implemented it right away.

Edit: Oh, and King Zeal... That old version of the trope description you linked... It doesn't say anything about prostitution having anything to do with the trope, only that the trope namer character was a prostitute.

edited 6th Feb '12 6:02:23 AM by Xzenu

It does mention prostitution. Read the fifth bullet point.

And again, there are exceptions to the title-as-dialogue rule. One of those exceptions is when the dialogue effectively demonstrates the trope.

And your YKTTW is premature. You probably should have waited for us to do a crowner here before jumping the gun.

edited 6th Feb '12 6:14:41 AM by KingZeal

"Asian women and white men have the hots for each other" isn't a stereotype. It just often happens and often doesn't.

"Asian women travel to Denmark and come back a white husband within a month" might be a stereotype (if it were true; I've seen little evidence that it is).

Even if they're not "stereotypes" (although, that's a semantic argument I'm unqualified to debate), it is a common fictional convention: ie, a trope. It shows up in enough media and is discussed enough outside of fiction to qualify.

Actually, in the New York Metro area at least, Asian women preferring white men over their own or any other race is a stereotype. So maybe I was wrong when I said it wasn't a trope. I guess there could be two different pages for that one and the one with all the negative power connotations.

That bullet point is about the "white man saves brown woman from brown men" stereotype, and that stereotype is indeed part of the trope. Yes, foot-binding and prostitution are indeed two of the things the Mighty Whitey may save her from. But that doesn't mean that foot-binding as such or prostitution as such is part of the actual trope.

Also, here's the official policy on names in dialogue:

"We no longer name tropes after a line of dialogue or a Stock Phrase. It risks editors wikilinking the phrase every time that particular combination of words occurs, whether the underlying trope actually applies in that context or not."

If we would split the trope, then, it would be into one more traditional (with Mighty Whithey and/or white male power) and one more modern with breaking down racial boundaries and emancipation of Asian women. While there definitely is a distinction between these concepts, I think it would be very hard to uphold it - what example goes where would be too YMMV.

Now you're splitting hairs. The bullet point in question brings up prostitution as specifically being something that is stereotyped about these types of characters. You're also ignoring the fact that Tropes Are Flexible.

And lastly, let either Fast Eddie himself or another mod come here and say that the dialogue name is unacceptable. There are many, many tropes which have avoided renames for the same grounds (Where da White Women At? being a recent example), but if they have a problem with it, let them say it.

Are you saying that the modern stereotype is about the emancipation of Asian women? That's kind of a risky statement to make, as if they need to be emancipated from their own men or something. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

I agree with your final point one hundred per cent.

Meh, that's just the thing: There is no such thing as the modern (or traditional) stereotype on why or how. The common ground is that "white man + Asian woman" is an archetypical/stereotypical combo - the reasons for why and how simply scatter in all kinds of directions.

You know, the history of stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes or other such things if they were fairly recent.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:36:32 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Why?

Because even today that's happening, and it's not really stereotypically offensive considering you can look at it as a john just picking up a hooker without worrying abut race.

Since when does that matter? Both Angry Black Man and Scary Black Man happen. That doesn't stop them from being stereotypes or tropes.

I know, I was talking to the other guy. I didn't say it wasn't a trope.

edited 7th Mar '12 1:36:42 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Yes it does. I literally googled "Asian sex stereotypes" and got several returns on just this subject. In fact, here's an excerpt:

How about that. An example of the stereotype from a movie released looooong before the Trope Namer even came along.

Full link.

edited 7th Feb '12 11:13:12 AM by KingZeal

Thus, this becomes the Companion Trope to Dragon Lady.

You know at least some of this comes out of Real Life...we fought three wars in East Asia between 1940 and 1970, and spent a few years ruling Japan. A good number of those soldiers came home with wives and girlfriends. And if there's been a lot of academic writings about the trope, it would be a good idea to plow through them for purposes of definition improvement.

Agree that "Asian sex worker" is better as a separate stereotype trope. At best, they're cousin tropes.

As an Oriental I've acted this pairing trope out a number of times, and I don't see what the fuss about the name is about - though yes, it is clear a tidy-up was in order given the misuse.

I object to the new title. I believe we have gone too far out of our way to avoid offending people - what's so special about this one when we have so many ethnic, racial, national, religious, political &c tropes? - and the new name is just a plain description which lacks soul. If we are to bid 'Me Love You Long Time' goodbye, then we should at least endeavour to replace it with something less... ordinary-sounding.

That said, yes, it would be nice to have a separate thread for asian and oriental prostitutes. Perhaps that one could use the old name.

edited 21st Feb '12 6:13:13 AM by MAI742

>> This second half of the movie is indeed set in Vietnam. Yet, the ONLY vietnamese character to get any dialogue just HAPPENS to be a sex worker. <<

But what about the sniper with the AK 47 who begs the Marines to shoot her in the climactic scene?

I still think this one should go back to Me Love You Long Time while Asian Hooker Stereotype (currently developing in YKTTW) could be a sister trope with tons of overlap.

Can we start a name crowner?