The Gun Thread

The original was .22 rimfire or .22 Hornet over a .410 shotgun. It's good to see that somebody finally brought it back. And with what look like proper triggers instead of that stiff, mushy squeeze-bar designed to be used with mittens on...

The Japanese Army’s Assault Rifle Has Some Weird Features

I wouldn't call them weird. The fire control selector is no more unusual than that of the AK — Safe, Full-Auto, then Semi. Considering that Russian infantry tactics rely heavily on their soldiers firing full-auto bursts instead of carefully-aimed single shots, it makes perfect sense.

The separate 3-round burst mechanism isn't all that bizarre, either. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that they made it that way in case one or the other mechanism breaks in the field, so you can still shoot.

Now, for something that's really weird, how about the Galil's built-in bottle opener? This was done because Israeli reservists were using the magazine's feed lips to pry the caps off of bottles, and ruining their mags in the process. (If it were up to me, I wouldn't have given them a Swiss-Army Weapon, I'd just have Drill Sergeant Nasty scream at them: "Don't f***ing do that!")

edited 30th Nov '16 4:56:44 PM by pwiegle

Just issue them all bar keys and make it part of the mandatory packing list.

is anyone else getting tired of people writing long articles that could be best summarized as "it's an AR-18 derivative"?

Yes, along with "it's an M-16 derivative / it's an AK derivative / etc."

Yeah, but derivatives are neat.

Time for someone to make a truly strange gun again.

You mean like that Korean OICW knockoff?

The problem is that truely strange guns have three basic states: 1) too damn strange to use, 2) strange enough to work well enough, but somehow not break records or anything and 3) work well enough to become not-strange and, therefore, derivative.

Maybe the Marines should adopt an AR-18 derivative. I like the idea of combining the features of the AR-180b, a modernized, improved civilian version, with the shortened barrel of the AR-18s. I call it the AR-18bs :)

The SCAR can be traced back the AR-18 can't it?

I think the ACR can and even the Robson Armaments XCR.

De Marquis: The Marines are seriously considering the M-27 to become a standard weapon. The M-27 is basically an HK-416 with a longer barrel and some USMC specific accessory parts slapped onto it. The Marines pretty much came straight out and said they are testing it for that very purpose after several years of speculation. It has its own similarities to the AR-18 such as using the short stroke gas piston and rotating bolt. So in a round about way they kind of are going for a rifle like that.

Just about every rifle in service today is derived from either the AR-18 or the Kalashnikov families.

Did you mean AR-15?

Granted you could just throw into the pile as the AR-18 was built to be similar but used a gas piston system instead of direct impingement.

Did you mean the AR-10?

I want one of those. It's like an AR-15, but just a little bit farther off the road. Guess I'm a bit of a hipster.

Going even further you may as well call A Ks automatic Garands because of the long stroke action.

Huh huh, you said "long stroke action".

Actually now that I think about it, how many truly unique rifles are in service right now?

The INSAS, it is an unique display how you can royally fuck up even a simple thing.

Well, the XCR is more like an AK with an AR-18 receiver. The ACR, SCAR, G36, etc etc are based on the AR-18- and it goes beyond "Oh if it's short-stroke they're an AR-18. It's more like an extruded aluminum receiver, a bolt carrier that looks exactly the same, and the same bolt. Like damn.

I'd say that the AK was, if based on the Garand, a significant improvement in terms of having an op rod that doesn't have multiple weak points designed in.

What I'd really, really, love to see is a forged/machined receiver variant of the AR-18 platform. Like, not a retrofit to the AR-15 like the HK series, but an actual, I dunno, SCAR with the receiver built from forgings. Would lose a lot of the weight savings, but might actually be a real improvement over time. Until then, I just hope that extrusions get better.

Basically every rifle design out there is built on designs already used. That may or may not take on as a successful AR design. The AK was built on way more then the Garand and the Garand itself was a bit derivative.

The only unique looking item out there is the CTA action and that has some predecessor in the Dardick Tround.

To be fair though there is only so many ways to build a gun.

It basically a single cylinder combustion engine with one end open so that the piston flys out the end, though there are a couple different methods of loading a new piston in after that.

But due to the low amount of parts and simplicity, your going to hit derivatives incredibly fast.

edited 3rd Dec '16 1:37:43 AM by Imca

Unless someone starts to get creative and use electric ignition, CT or Caseless rounds, a bolt meant to use those rounds and a repeating action that isn't common like electricity driven action which would be more in common with the Aliens' Colonial Marines Pulse Rifle, then we're going to see more of the same with minor iterations and improvements over existing designs.