AffablyEvil vs. FauxAffablyEvil; how distinct are these?

Affably Evil

Faux Affably Evil

Their laconics say "a genuinely polite villain" and "a villain with a fake veneer of niceness" respectively, but wouldn't the "evil" part be enough to make "niceness" seem fake anyway? What good is "niceness" in the context of Affably Evil if one's evil is going to cause much more hurt than such empty "niceness" avoided in the first place? In light of this, where do we draw the line between Affably Evil and Faux Affably Evil?

Ah, these two again.

It's possibly to be both nice and evil. See Friendly Enemy, Worthy Opponent, Antagonist in Mourning, etc.

Each of those tropes can be applied to Grey-and-Grey Morality. But the idea of considering someone evil "nice" just seems to be a contradiction in terms.

They aren't nice as in 'good' they are nice as in chatty, polite, sociable, etc.

• Affably Evil: Villain acts friendly towards the hero. He doesn't see why he has to be rude or unfriendly just because he's doing bad things to accomplish his goals. Like Noble Demon, he doesn't see the point in going the extra mile to be a dick, at least not with the hero, he doesn't get a kick out of being evil.
• Faux Affably Evil: Villain acts genial just to screw with the hero and acts downright creepily familiar or polite. You can usually tell when it's this because he'll do a 360 in behavior and have a meltdown at some point. This guy definitely does get a kick out of screwing with people, and he's usually portrayed as genuinely evil to the core.

There's a real distinction, though admittedly in practice it's sometimes hard to tell which is going on with a character, especially since it's possible for a character to be both at different times, sometimes being genuine but if he gets pissed off, putting an edge on it to mess with the hero.

edited 13th Jan '12 9:00:08 PM by NoirGrimoir

• Affably Evil: "Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I put you in the dungeon; you're my guests, and it would be rude not to treat you as such. Even Evil Has Standards."
• Faux Affably Evil: "As long as I have the upper hand, there's no reason not to gloat about it. Here, have some dainties. Like them? I had them made from your village."

I can see how it might be difficult to tell unless the villain loses the upper hand. Pretty much, if they do, the actually Affably Evil will accept it with composure. Faux Affably Evil will freak out or Villianous BSOD.

Nice way to put it.

Thanks. I see the two as distinct as Magnificent Bastard and Smug Snake. In fact, this trope is one rule of thumb for me to separate. I've never seen a Smug Snake that could still pull off a believable Affably Evil, and once the Magnificent Bastard loses his cool, he just isn't as impressive.

I see! Nice incite, I agree!

There doesn't seem to be anything to actually do here. Can we go ahead and close this?

Affably Evil and Faux Affably Evil will look the same, in completely ordinary circumstances. Affably Evil is polite, but separates their polite demeanour from their evil actions. Faux Affably Evil continues that polite demeanour even when it wouldn't be appropriate, displaying a gleeful, lighthearted sadism when faced with the suffering he causes.

Both types can have a Villainous Breakdown, however, it will probably manifest itself differently. A breakdown for an Affably Evil character will be more likely to result in the character losing their affability; they do away with all pretence of courtesy, and would now only be concerned with being evil. A breakdown for a Faux Affably Evil character, on the other hand, will seem more like Dissonant Serenity; the lightheartedness would be gone, to be replaced by an eerie, uncharacteristic calmness. In both cases, the character is likely to become much more sadistic; the Affably Evil character is more likely to become unhinged and ruthless, while the Faux Affably Evil character is more likely to become serious and focused.

This was a long argument when it was called Evilly Affable. Some people see the distinction perfectly clearly, others find those dissatisfying.

Affably Evil is villains who are nice, maybe polite. They are the Mayor of Sunnydale. Bill the Butcher. Long John Silver. That other thing is... I don't know... I get it, but it should be called something else completely.

Did a sandbox: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/AffablyEvil

Also note that Affably Evil is an established term. The other two are effectively snowclones.

Bump.

There still doesn't seem to be anything to do here. Lock?