I don't think the new name really works: Half Truth

I am trying to think of when I can tell a half truth and not lie by omission.

Aside from that, I do like the idea of renaming the Jedi Truth trope to Metaphorical ""Truth"".

edited 31st Jan '12 12:16:15 PM by crazysamaritan

What about Technical Truth? It's a very common way of putting it. "You see, technically I wasn't lying".

EDIT: Oh, okay, it's already an alias for this trope. How about making it the main name?

edited 8th Feb '12 11:35:22 PM by AnaSofia

Jedi Truth is technically a lie.

Don't Jedi rather consistently refer to their Dark Side counterparts as sort of walking dead, as per a note in this article? I won't touch SW theology with a ten foot laser pole, but there may be something.

Anyway, "half-truth" is obviously a subset of "very certain point of view".

edited 25th Feb '12 1:51:08 AM by TBeholder

''Don't Jedi rather consistently refer to their Dark Side counterparts as sort of walking dead?'

The entire reason for that was the need to retcon what Obi-Wan said.

See, no, From a Certain Point of View and Half-Truth are not the same - I'd argue that they're not even related, or at the very most are both "sibling" tropes rather than "parent/child" tropes in some order.

A Half-Truth is a lie by omission: in Madoka Magica, for example, Kyubey says that turning a Witch back to normal instead of destroying them has "never been done before," which inspires someone to foolishly try to do so. He knows full well, however, that it's never been done before because it's literally impossible. From a Certain Point of View is, as mentioned previously, metaphorically but not factually true: in Order Of The Stick, for another example, Belkar asks the Oracle whether he will kill Miko, Miko's horse, Roy, or the Oracle himself, and he gets the unhelpful answer "yes." Later, the Oracle tries to weasel his way out of getting stabbed by claiming that his prediction has already come true: him being Obviously Evil led Miko to distrust the party, leading her down the path that got her killed; her horse will never be summoned again, making it effectively "dead"; and Roy was killed because he tried something foolish on account of a piece of equipment Belkar gave him. Belkar doesn't buy any of it and stabs him anyway.

The key difference is the proportion of BS in play. A Half-Truth must, by its very name, be at least partly true; the remainder can be complete BS (Palpatine's claim to Anakin/Vader that he killed Padme's unborn children) or simply unstated (again, the Madoka Magica example above). From a Certain Point of View, on the other hand, is based on factual premises but comes to a BS conclusion about them: it can be considered "technically" true, but most people would argue that it doesn't really count.

Consider this a vote for splitting the trope.

edited 25th Feb '12 2:15:58 AM by Ryusui

And the trope namer comment applies as well, since what Kenobi meant was strictly metaphorical.

It was metaphorical, but it was being passed off as factual. That's the difference between Half-Truth and From a Certain Point of View: a Half-Truth is a partial truth intended to mislead, while From a Certain Point of View is factually false but metaphorically true (a rich man flaunting his wealth on a stroll through the Shades might be quite happy with his life with no intention of ending it prematurely, but once the Watch finds him stabbed, garroted, and stripped to his underwear, they'll have no choice but to rule it a suicide).

This guy gets it.

I agree. These are two tropes.

I third the opinion that these are two different tropes. About the name, I think Metaphorical Truth is a good one because it will (probably) come up early when people use the search to find it, and it seems close enough that people might take a look at it's page if they are looking for a trope like it. However, True From A Certain Point Of View would seem clearer to most people and would appear in more searches. To sum it up, those two are favourites, but I really can't decide between them.

If we can't actually use From a Certain Point of View, I want to recommend Figuratively Factual for Added Alliterative Appeal. ^_^;

Or Metaphorically True.

I like Metaphorically True or Figuratively True; Metaphorical Truth sounds more like An Aesop to me, and Figuratively Factual just sounds awkward.

Or True From A Certain Point Of View, which is what I wanted to call it in the first place. That extra word is an important qualifier, instead of seeming like any viewpoint.

@ #30 - well, fairly transparently. But for SW it's pretty much normal, no? It seems full of this — Greedo or Han shooting first, No Endor Holocaust, etc.

edited 3rd Mar '12 10:37:35 AM by TBeholder

Bump?

Seems like there's consensus for a rename. Page action crowner to choose a name?

You want an alt-names crowner here.

I don't know how to do those. >_>;;

Here.

Now you need a moderator to hook it. Use the holler button - yellow triangle over my post.

edited 31st Mar '12 2:30:11 PM by SeptimusHeap

Hooked.

Metaphorically True is +7 (yeas:8 nays:1) 8.00 : 1
and the other is in red.

Final votes before hollering?

I also notice that Half-Truth and various other honesty tropes have examples of the Vulcans on Star Trek being completely, compulsively, honest, except when they have a logical reason to lie through their teeth (which happens about as often as the engineering staff finding a way, when the battle seems lost, to do something they explicitly called physically impossible 10 minutes earlier).

This most certainly *isn't* Half-Truth or Metaphorical Truth. I'm not sure what honesty trope it is, if it's any; it seems to simply be a product of their very alien thinking style (I can't see a Vulcan lying to say the equivalent of "honey, that dress makes you look great", but when they have a logically valid reason, they certainly will lie).

You're right, it's not. It would be something like Reputation For Honesty (and that counts whether it's deserved or not).