Linear novels:

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As in, novels with no branching plot lines. I'm planning to make an index for them, since there doesn't seem to be one on the wiki. So what are examples of linear novels? The only ones I can think of on hand are the When They Cry series and Mahou Tsukai No Yoru. Arha also says that Fate/hollow ataraxia is one.

edited 25th Dec '11 7:19:26 PM by LiberatedLiberater

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2 dorkatlarge25th Dec 2011 08:28:36 PM , Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Has enough swords
The VNDB lists 330 examples of visual novels with just one ending. You'll also see the tag "kinetic novel" on the page, which is used to describe stories with no choices. 213 examples right now. Hopefully this helps.
3 neobowman25th Dec 2011 09:48:38 PM from Unidentified Proxy , Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
Planetarian. Ef. Well, the latter has one ending but you can get bad ends.
I'm kinda looking for those with a page on the wiki. VNDB's a start, I suppose. I'll draft the index page for now.
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5 dRoy25th Dec 2011 10:20:35 PM from The Happy Place , Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Planetarian too, I believe.
Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
Okay, so I started the index over here. Feel free to add more stuff to it, if it has a wiki page.
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There is a page for them at Kinetic Novel.
Yes, that what I said -__- I just made that page.
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9 muninn26th Dec 2011 07:47:32 AM from Somewhere, out there...
'M not Crazy, just Raven
May I question the inclusion of the Ace Attorney series on the Kinetic Novel index? I've only ever seen the term used to describe visual novels with no choices or interactive content whatsoever *
Well, I kind of decided to just use the definition for novels with linear plots in general. If it's too wrong, then let's have consensus on what the index should be then.
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Remember 11. Two endings, but only because one leads right into the other and the plot is still entirely linear. It's like a halfway point.

Are you sure Umineko counts? It has two different endings. It it does, then does the likes of Sharin no Kuni count? And what if there's one final, unlocked route that resolves the entire story and takes place after all the other routes, but the order you do those routes in doesn't matter?

edited 26th Dec '11 11:02:18 AM by Arha

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Kinetic Novels is for novels that don't have interactivity at all. It's viable as an index, but Ace Attorney, Hotel Dusk and Umineko shouldn't be on there.

I'd say Linear Visual Novel would make a good index for V Ns with single endings. Though Hotel Dusk and Umineko wouldn't be on that either.

edited 26th Dec '11 11:05:39 AM by INUH

Okay, I removed all the V Ns that conflict with the traditional definition and tweaked the description. Umineko counts, but only up to Episode 7, I suppose. By that logic, Higurashi also shouldn't count since it had interactivity in Episode 8 as well.

So anyway, I think I'll work on the Linear Visual Novel index next, but it's 3 in the morning so if anyone else wants to work on that, please do so.

Oh, and INUH, I would like that Mikado avatar, if you please grin

edited 26th Dec '11 11:37:06 AM by LiberatedLiberater

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14 Heatth26th Dec 2011 11:35:02 AM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Umineko no Naku Koro ni and Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru is considered to be two different Visual Novel, even if they share the same work page. The first has no interactivity at all, so it has a place in the index. Although a note may be in order to explain the difference.

What about Higurashi Kai? Even ignoring the couple of relevance-less choices, the last Chapter includes an interactive-ish way to see the scenes. Does it count as a Kinetic Novel then? (not that it matter much, as the first Higurashi has no interactivity either)

edited 26th Dec '11 11:35:52 AM by Heatth

15 muninn26th Dec 2011 01:07:57 PM from Somewhere, out there...
'M not Crazy, just Raven
@Ahra: Remember11 isn't Kinetic, either. Kinetic means no choice or interactivity whatsoever. Even if every choice is either ineffectual or results in an immediate bad end, that still makes it non-kinetic. Sharin no Kuni, Himawari no Shoujo wouldn't be kinetic either, but Sn K, Yuukyuu no Shounenshoujo might be (I can't remember any choices, but my memory might be faulty).

Essentially, the problem is that we're trying to take something that is probably tropable (Visual Novels or similar games which only have one possible story), but we're slapping it with a pre-existing term which has a much more specific meaning. I would support the creation of a Linear Visual Novel index, although we may want to specify that it's for Linear but nonkinetic V Ns (since, by definition, any Kinetic novel will be linear).

edited 26th Dec '11 1:13:08 PM by muninn

16 Heatth26th Dec 2011 02:49:57 PM from Brasil , Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
I guess this is why even index usually go through YKTTW before launching. Things are never as simple as it seem.

So, how about Linear Visual Novel as the main name and having a paragraph explaining Kinetic Novel and having it for redirect. Even if it is misleading as a main name, the pre existent term is common enough for people to search for it. However, I don't think there is enough distinction to make it a full subindex.
17 muninn26th Dec 2011 07:15:22 PM from Somewhere, out there...
'M not Crazy, just Raven
I'd still support making them two separate indexes, if only because my (albeit not incredibly involved) experiences with the visual novel community is that the Kinetic/Interactive distinction is a generally more-observed difference than Linear-but-possibly-including-choices-or-bad-ends-or-whatnot/Branching.
Ho hum. I wanted it to go to YKTTW, but I thought I'd get more input from the VN subforum. I guess I rushed it a bit. I think this could use a crowner.
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As in, how are we going to define it, regardless of how others do so?
Made a crowner for it here. Note that some of the options aren't mutually exclusive.

edited 26th Dec '11 9:16:04 PM by LiberatedLiberater

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21 muninn27th Dec 2011 05:54:54 AM from Somewhere, out there...
'M not Crazy, just Raven
One other thing to keep in mind is that, in a perfect wiki, we would probably have a works page for the "Official" Kinetic Novels, but this doesn't seem to be a concern at the moment since the only one that people have really heard of outside of Japan is Planetarian. That page could probably go on Kinetic Novel on the off chance that we ever accumulate enough information to make it anything other than a stub or a duplicate of the Planetarian page.
The leading choice is currently to make a separate index for novels with linear plots. So a couple of questions:

  • Would it be redundant to place examples on the Kinetic Novel page on the overarching index?
  • VNDB has two tags for novels with one ending — Linear Plot and One True End. Do we include the latter here (as in, there's only one true ending but there can be multiple endings/bad ends)?
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23 muninn28th Dec 2011 09:07:15 AM from Somewhere, out there...
'M not Crazy, just Raven
Since a Kinetic Novel will always be Linear, I'd say we just link to that index at the top of the Linear index.

I'd say we leave out the One True End examples. Their description for that tag is:
"Even though this game has multiple endings, one of them is considered to be the true ending to the story.

Sometimes this is evident from that ending being several times longer then others, sometimes it is the ending the sequel continues from and sometimes this is later disclosed by the creators."

This seems to include a wide variety of circumstances from things like Air and CLANNAD having extended paths for a certain heroine, to things like Galaxy Angel having a sequel that assumes you chose a specific girl.

I'd say that for a Linear Visual Novel page, the focus should be mostly on the story. Thus, something like Remember11 (where there are many bad endings that immediately end the story, one sort-of-bad ending which gives the player a bunch of information they otherwise wouldn't see, and one good ending, but there's still only a single straight story), Sharin No Kuni Himawari No Shoujo (where the changes to the story and the endings are effectively cosmetic), and Sono Hanabira No Kuchizuki Wo (where the story ends early if the player makes bad choices) would all be considered "Linear", but things like Saya no Uta, Ever17 CLANNAD (which have obvious "true" endings but still have the ability to take the story in other directions) wouldn't.

edited 28th Dec '11 9:09:36 AM by muninn

Okay, I made the page: Linear Visual Novel
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Not-So-Sane fox
Well, now that the Kinetic Novel page exists, I can take the hottip out of the Songs Of Araiah page.

(And that one really does need some more wiki magic)

Total posts: 27
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