General Star Wars Thread

That's what happens when you wait until they're already building sets for the movie before even STARTING to write the script. It feels rushed and poorly-thought out. Like a semi-decent first draft, but one that needed multiple revisions in order to really make it into something good.

The fact tie-in-novels have politics in them doesn't really mean anything. TFA going out of its way to disassociate themselves from absolutely anything that vaguely resembles the prequels plot or aesthetic wise was clearly on purpose. Many viewers have complained about how TFA's refusal to update anything on the political status quo of the galaxy other than vague hints is one of the movie's main flaws (and one of the primary reasons no one gave a shit about Hosnian Prime's destruction). It has even less politics in it than A New Hope did.

I don't really mind the politics of any of the prequels, to be honest. Execution is a little lacking sometimes, though.

I think the real sin of TFA is how much it's a work of creative reaction. Like, not only is it creatively bankrupt in that it's such a slavish rehash of ANH, but it has an obsessive hatred of not just the Prequels, but the entire Prequel era — the Core World setting, the politics, everything, which are the things I adore about the prequel era when the execution is good. I'm not saying the Prequels were great movies, but the setting had so many rich ideas that get tossed out because of this kind of narrative Luddism.

It kind of makes TFA something of a cinematic Disco Dan, in my opinion.

edited 28th Jun '17 7:55:27 AM by CrimsonZephyr

I see how TFA's retread was a (over)reaction to the prequels' poor reception, but I don't view it as complete backlash. They made it clear within TFA that the prequels are still canon, and I can see that they would want one more more standard film to get the story into a manageable state again, so the rest that follow can have a firm foundation with which to take liberty from.

edited 28th Jun '17 8:53:28 AM by Tuckerscreator

I think what annoys me the most is that there's an idea that somehow Disney is responsible for the franchise becoming "creatively bankrupt" or some shit because, well, they're Disney. It's the typical irrational hatred of Disney's status as a corporate juggernaut and the fear that Star Wars is gonna be watered down by them.

Wasn't referring to you but to the whole thing about wanting the Han Solo movie to fail so Disney could finally get bad reviews from several pages back.

Well, I do kind of think that people aren't being critical enough of the new canon, but that's irrespective of its maker.

Meh. Was never a fan of the "It's being watered down for greater mass appeal" line of thinking. Always felt there was an undercurrent of elitism to that - "I liked it before it was cool, ergo I'm a Better Fan."

Broadening demographics is nearly always a plus in my book.

edited 28th Jun '17 9:31:05 AM by HamburgerTime

It's a valid argument in some situations, if the "broadening of the demographic" to give it mass appeal means stripping away elements that make the work interesting or more dense but which might make people uncomfortable or which suits think are too "artsy", making the work more formulaic and bland. Sometimes in order to make really interesting art, you have to "sacrifice" some potential fans who won't necessarily like what you're doing. Changing a work to get more people to like it is not necessarily in and of itself a good thing.

Of course as it relates to Star Wars I don't think it's particularly relevant since SW has always BEEN a mass appeal franchise.

edited 28th Jun '17 11:35:53 AM by Draghinazzo

Blaming Disney is a crappy line of argument because litigation-happy legal team and giant IP steamroller aside, Disney is one of the most creative companies out there. Whatever happened during TFA's development process, or for that matter, say, Ant-Man or Doctor Strange, there'd have to be more to it than just the buyout itself.

Considering Disney is all about live action remakes that are worse than the original these days I wouldn't say they are at all creative anymore.

Star Wars is included in that as well.

edited 28th Jun '17 1:37:41 PM by Memers

Seems to be forgetting how last year they had Zootopia and Moana.

edited 28th Jun '17 1:41:00 PM by AdricDePsycho

I liked Cinderella.

Also, since when is the Jungle Book remake worse than the original? The original is overrated trash.

I will gladly advocate for the new Jungle Book. It is perhaps one of my favorite movies I've ever seen, and far better than the original throughout (except for the songs, mostly.)

I dunno, you criticise the original Jungle Book but then immediately I Wanna Be Like You gets stuck in my head.

edited 28th Jun '17 2:27:03 PM by Lavaeolus

Gotta count their animation department, which includes Pixar, in any honest assessment of Disney. And apart from Cars, that's remained pretty solid.

The only live-action remake I've seen was The Jungle Book, and that was great. A remake's not inherently bad (though most of them are lazy cash-ins these days), and any movie can still be good if it has something new to say and/or show. Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast didn't quite appeal to me, but I've heard a lot of honest praise for them both.

edited 28th Jun '17 2:27:41 PM by Unsung

The original Jungle Book isn't the best film in Disney Animated Canon I'll grant you that,and the only two songs I consider 'memorable' are bare necessities and Colonel Hathi's march song,but I feel it's far from overrated trash.

I liked the new Jungle Book too

edited 28th Jun '17 2:31:03 PM by Ultimatum

While Pixar and Disney Animation are solid, Disney doesn't show much creativity in its live-action films. The live-action remakes of animated films are creatively lazy (albeit pretty), and most of the MCU films have felt vaguely the same for the last several years, despite the idea that they're in "different genres".

edited 28th Jun '17 3:39:24 PM by Galadriel

The Netflix Marvel shows are a little bit more ambitious, but yeah I otherwise agree with that.

Couldn't find a Forces of Destiny thread, so I'm dropping this here-

Gotta say, I'm really disappointed. I didn't have too high hopes because I didn't hink most of the showcased characters actually needed more screentime for development, but I really wanted the Jyn short to be good because she really needed some extra development and I could see good things coming out of a couple minutes of young Jyn running around with the Saw Squad. This... this just looks like mindless action with corny dialogue. This doesn't look even remotely interesting.

@Karxrida:

The Trade Federation was manipulated into the blockade by Palpatine, over trade tariffs. The communication blackout during the invasion made it impossible for anyone to confirm the truth of Amidala's statements in an easy way, requiring a delegation or committee. Palpatine used the Republic's systemic inertia to put the blockade into a legal grey zone. And get voted in as Chancellor with a motion of no-confidence.

They were just a small part of the overall plan to create the Confederation of Independent Systems.

edited 29th Jun '17 1:50:08 AM by TerminusEst

Jesus, that's extreme! I agree that the live-action Jungle Book is better than the animated original, but the latter is also a far, far cry from "trash."

I am of the opinion that Chicken Little and Meet the Robinsons are about as low as Disney's ever sunk. If they did something worse than that, I haven't seen it or don't remember it. Even Home on the Range is better than those two. But that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, I think Rogue One has pretty decent characters. They aren't complex, but the narrative doesn't need them to be, and that's okay. A simple, straightforward story calls for simple, straightforward characters (and I for one have no trouble remembering their names and personalities).

I've noticed that Orson Krennic rarely gets accused of being a crap character, though, and I think that's not for nothing. He's one of the better Star Wars villains so far.

I guess I'm a little bummed because I seem to be enjoying these new movies more than anyone here. It's been a nonstop "Star Wars is good again!" party for me since The Force Awakens came out, but none of my TV Tropes pals are having fun. I wish you guys could see what I see in them.

Krennic's an alright villain, but the main criticisms I've seen of him are that, (1) his subplot about wanting credit for the Death Star has no effect on the story, (2) Jyn's history with him is never resolved because Cassian kills him.