What kind of story do you want to read?

Seconding everyone else. Outside of porn, sex that is meaningless from a narrative perspective is pointless to the story (heck, I wouldn't even say it's all right in porn, considering that sex is kind of the point there). It doesn't offend me the way it seems it does some other posters, but I consider it bad writing.

So long as meaningless sex is meaningful to the plot, I've got no problem with it. On the other hand, works without even an oblique reference to sex puzzle me much more than works that feature gratuitous fucking.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

May I ask why?

I'd assume because, in much of life, sex happens none too rarely. Not all the time, granted, but a total absence of it where it would clearly appear in some form is a bit curious.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Because if I were interested in how mildly autistic asexuals perceive life, I would be reading Naruto fanfiction. Alternatively, what JHM said.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Which is why I found Matched, a YA dystopian book, a bit jarring. Let's say I put my expectations for the novel a little too high, since I read a slightly more mature dystopian novel, Divergent, last summer.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:58:54 PM by chihuahua0

Sex and misery go quite well together, methinks.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

On topic for reals:

Good, strong characters who feel real and involve me; depth is useful but a good Static Character can work, too. If it's a novel, fantasy with unique and engaging worldbuilding. If it's a short story, something realistic and an unusual premise. Dramedy. Snappy dialogue in which character's individual voices shine through.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

Say what you will of Enemy Mayan, but he's a typical example of a certain type of person who's drawn to Literotica.

Was that meant to be a compliment or an insult?

On-topic, I prefer stories where the characters feel like actual people, where the plot is tight and intriguing, and where I don't get the clammy realisation that I'm reading someone's political masturbation fodder. Or, y'know, actual masturbation fodder.

What's precedent ever done for us?

Nobody mentioned YA. Yuck. Just... yuck. Even when I was a Young Adult, I detested YA.

Jesus saves. Gretzky steals, he scores!

I used to read teen-aimed books when I was very young, but then I started reading HP Lovecraft and Edgar Allan Poe and things changed for me very quickly...

Also, always loved Edward Gorey, so I guess the turn of the sick streak wasn't entirely unanticipated.

edited 13th Dec '11 4:56:03 PM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

I noticed a lot of YA fiction when I was in middle/high school still treated its target demographic as kids. Or worse, tried to describe mature topics (like war, sex, or politics) in kid-friendly language.

And most of them failed miserably at it.

You insulted my favorite genre, both reading-wise and writing-wise.

Eat my Mallet o' Doom! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM!

...

But seriously, I love YA. However, I usually pick ones in the middle: not too clean, but not too edgy. Fun for all ages! *

Not to mention the genre can get a little innovative (for better *

^{which gets creative with destructive healing}

or for worst *

^{A 2nd person novella...which has one of the worst protagonists I had seen}

, but that's the charm of it), which is my goal for Manifestation Files.

edited 13th Dec '11 5:17:49 PM by chihuahua0

That said, you can write something that can be read by younger readers without writing explicitly for them, and the problem quite often is that authors not only conflate the two but miss that "younger" does not mean "less intelligent" or even "less well-read."

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Which is why I read YA but not Middle-Grade or Elementary, which do often write down to their audience. Unlike the latter two, YA is like its audience: not completely fitting in life.

The only things that tend to bother me about YA is a predictable romantic arc and (sometimes) a stereotypical school, but those are trade-offs for books with some good action and emotional conflict.

Too bad some YA involves a higher suspension of disbelief than their Adult versions. But yet again, I seem to have lower expectations than some here. For example, someone might mention something that incites rage (ie, Shipping. It's truly Serious Business on both sides), while I often says "meh". "People You Want to Strangle", on the other hand...

edited 13th Dec '11 5:26:45 PM by chihuahua0

Meh. As said before, I read a lot of experimental fiction, so it's less the suspension of disbelief that tends to bother me with that sort of thing than the... lack of panache, I guess? YA prose often seems to me lacking in the "flourish" department.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

I'm not sure what defines YA. Is it stuff like the Giver (I really liked that book when I was younger)? I haven't read much contemporary YA, but one of my younger friends was telling me about the Hunger Games and it seemed reasonably interesting, if not terribly innovative...

I am now known as Flyboy.

YA is anything that is aimed for the 12-18 audience. Basically, secondary school.

Yes, both The Giver and The Hunger Games are YA, despite being difference in tone and such.

EDIT: Wikipedia says that The Giver is a children's book, but yet again, there are different brands of Middle-Grade also, including the Newbury kind.

edited 13th Dec '11 6:12:11 PM by chihuahua0

I like to read stories of troubled people. The disturbed, friends with bad blood and bad history between each other, folks that don't know any better, etc. I don't like goodie two shoes that much.

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.

I've read excellent young adult fiction. Remember that these tags are tacked on by the publisher figuring out which demographic is most likely to buy these works, and not so much the writer thinking to himself, "hmmm, I think scarcely anyone besides fifteen-year-olds would enjoy this."

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Personally, I strongly dislike "YA" fiction as a whole for its tendency towards teenage protagonists, which I have not been shy in stating my disdain for. It's not like it doesn't make sense for its target audience, but it's not something that's going to appeal to me.

...Actually, come to think of it, I didn't like reading about teenage protagonists when I was a teenager either.

Edit: And on a completely different note, I frankly dislike the idea of deliberately writing for a demographic. Any demographic.

edited 13th Dec '11 8:18:27 PM by nrjxll

Harry Potter deals with teenage issues without having that obnoxious THIS IS A TALE ABOUT GROWING UP feel to it. The key, I guess, is not to let the puberty aspect overtake the story; other things should happen to the protagonist apart from sexual awakening and fights with parents who just don't understand.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

• Middle Grade = Books parents buy for their kids (Usually light-heated, fairly short, has a moral message, younger characters, etc.)
• YA = Books kids buy for themselves (more 'literary', may be darker both in events and themes, may have older characters, may be much longer or be part of a trilogy or series with an overarching plot, may use more difficult language.)

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

I want more 1m word stories, with adventure and danger and graphic violence and people bursting into tears because it's too much to handle. I want characters who have faults and make mistakes with enough repercussions that I love them even more despite themselves. I want intrigue and mysteries interesting and enticing enough to wrap my mind up in a bow tie. And then I want the tension snapped in half with comedy that makes me cry from laughing too hard, or pleasant slice-of-life scenes where things are just fine and dandy and we get some room to breathe. And I want pacing as smooth as butter.

You know, no pressure.

Because one makes the other worth it, or because one causes the other?

Nemo enim fere saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit Deviantart.

My problem with YA is that people introduce the mature topics, but never follow through on them.

Hunger Games for example, is full of lots of very dark possibilities, but almost all of them are shoved under the rug. I don't expect a gorefest with rape and sociopathy and guerilla warfare at every turn, but something a bit less...one dimensional, would be nice.

Harry Potter at least had a sort of background event going on, where things were implied. But that might be the nostalgia talking.

edited 14th Dec '11 7:24:12 AM by AtticusFinch

oddly