Written overly Japanese Specific: Gratuitous English

None of that is unique to Japanese other than the words Gairaigo and Wasei-eigo. All of those things will be explained in the general section with just those two words listed in the Japanese section.

I mean, even English does those exact same things. You just don't notice it because you see it every day and it seems so mundane that you over look it. There's nothing special about it other than the fact that it's in Japanese.

edited 5th Nov '11 8:31:57 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Do we need to change the crowner at all?

Bump. According to the crowner, consensus seems in favour of writing a non-culture specific description and then moving Japan specific information to a Useful Notes page.

Has the situation changed since?

Made a sandbox. I was going to just edit the current description (in the sandbox, I mean), but its crap, so I just started over. How's it look?

Thread Hop: Supporting a generic gratuitous English page and a Japanese specific useful notes.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

It needs to be highlighted that loanwords are not gratuitous, they have become part of the language. There's a big difference between "Dai pinchi!" and the random text t-shirt on the current page, same as there's a difference between going out for some karaoke and confusing your relatives by calling their newborn "kawaii". The initial four paragraphs in the current article are basically describing what this trope isn't.

I didn't even know karaoke came from Japanese!

edited 16th Dec '11 4:43:08 PM by Auxdarastrix

Portmanteau of an Japanese word and English Word, Kara means empty and Oke is from the English loan word "orchestra" pronounced okesutora. So Karaoke means "Empty Orchestra". (Japanese like portmanteaus a lot, compare English usage of initialism but more.)

Anyway loan words are a serious problem for all the gratuitous tropes especially when they actually mean something different... Like "Stove" to a Japanese person means space heater, while "Range" means Stove. (the early English term for it that fell out of use in the 60s.)

Or say Phlebotinum du Jour Du Jour is French but a full loan word to English thus not an example of Gratuitous French.

IMO they really need to actually use more than one word or make it so that only flat out intended and unneeded / gratuitous examples go on the page.

edited 16th Dec '11 9:04:40 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Well, the leading option is 21 points in the green. May as well call it. o.o

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

Well, we pretty much have called it. Now we're just trying to write up the new description. Did anyone take a look at the sandbox I made? I think it needs work, but its better than the current.

Calling the crowner for real.

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This still needs the switch done.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

What is the final action on this one?

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Gratuitous English needs to be rewritten to be non-Japanese specific. If there's something actually Japanese specific it needs to be moved to a Useful Notes page. I can't find any of the latter. Someone else would have to do it.

edited 15th Jan '12 10:33:52 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Ah. Cool. I don't have to make more long-winded arguments today, then.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

I made a sandbox at post 129.

I don't know that you can legitimately claim that "most of the time writers don't speak English," since it's becoming such a common language.

A more accurate statement would be "however, often writers are not as proficient in English as a native speaker..."

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Many time its just sounds cool and forgo actual actual rules for rules of their native languages or just pepper it in. Especially for songs. [1]◊ [2]◊ [3]◊ [4]◊ [5]◊ [6]◊ [7]◊ (actual japanese in the upper subtitle and translated bottom)

[8]

edited 16th Jan '12 5:02:00 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Say, what's the difference between a Useful Notes page and an Analysis page in function and purpose? Because I wonder if we should make a Gratuitous English Analysis subpage to shunt the Japanese info to instead of a Useful Notes page.

edited 16th Jan '12 6:02:38 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Useful Notes deal with factual things and have an orientation toward explaining reality to writers. Analysis is focused on why a trope occurs.

Fight smart, not fair.

Discar,

Your sandbox page seems alright to me and I think it would be okay to swap it and this point. It seems like one could just make a Gratuitous English in Japan Useful Notes page and pretty much cut and paste everything in the current description of Gratuitous English not found in that sandbox page to the Useful Notes one.

I might be a bit off the mark though, so I would definitely appreciate feedback on that idea.

edited 23rd Jan '12 6:06:32 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Completely forgot about this. Swapped in the sandbox, and moved the big Spanglish etc section to analysis.

Is someone making the Japanese Useful Notes version? Can we take the Useful Notes tags off the main page then, since it's not really a Useful Note anymore?

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

OK, made Gratuitous English in Japan. I think we're done.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Thank you. Locking.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick