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Thank you! I think we can work with that. Got any good examples?
Rose from Titanic?
Well, there are a number of characters listed on the related pages. Lady Marian from Robin Hood is the only one that seems to fit. The others appear to be weird attempts to pimp fanservice more in fighting games. As such the characters are busty and scantily clad and really don't fit at all.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
This sounds like a character that's most likely to appear in a British Period Piece.
It actually shows up in modern British works a fair bit, especially as the Love Interest.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Rabid Fujoshi
I'd be hesitant to send it to YKTTW without defining it first.
From what I can tell, English Rose is "The British Female Ideal." So Proper Lady in Britain. I don't see a problem with this since we have Yamato Nadeshiko, the Proper Lady in Japan, but we need to establish what is more specific about it than simply a Proper Lady. Looks definitely seems to play into it.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Whatever of Breath
What about the things brought up by Peccantis in post 50 and by Shimaspawn in post 36? To me, those cleared things up immensely.
Rabid Fujoshi
Post 50 is almost entirely about looks. The other post is more useful I think. We should probably sandbox a new description before we YKTTW for examples.
edited 3rd Nov '11 6:00:54 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
The English Rose is defined by personality and look. Describing this look is as useful as describing the personality.
I specifically described the looks in detail because the current trope description doesn't, it's almost exclusively about the other aspects.
As for other things, I don't believe the English Rose is always a Proper Lady — she can also be a (subtler) Spirited Young Lady or a Ethereal Creative Girl ("poem girl" archetype that spans other types of creative outlets as well, from visual arts to music) (don't we have anything for this btw?).
edited 4th Nov '11 1:48:13 AM by peccantis
Zzzzzzzzzz
I'm not sure about the overlap between English Rose and Spirited Young Lady. The English Rose is described as dutiful and demure and diplomatic, but the Spirited Young Lady is rebellious, independent, and usually has a pointed wit. I don't think those characteristics go together.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
You might not think they go together, but a proper English Rose is frequently both. She is proper and demure, but with a sharp wit when riled. Generally of the sort where others don't tend to get how they've been played until after the fact. She's independent because she's used to running her home while her spouse is away and she can function just fine without him. But when he's there she's subservient to him, at least as much as is good for him.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Zzzzzzzzzz
But that doesn't seem to be what Spirited Young Lady is about — it's more about the mildly rebellious daughter who has her own ideas about how her life is going to go, and who doesn't take social conventions she doesn't like meekly.
Saying that an English Rose is "competent on her own, but subservient to her husband when he's there" is pretty much the antithesis of a Spirited Young Lady, who isn't subservient at all.
edited 4th Nov '11 10:27:16 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Rabid Fujoshi
I agree with Madraguda there.
I heard something about English Rose was supposed to be able to interact with those of all social circles and be polite and kind to everyone regardless of rank.
edited 4th Nov '11 10:41:59 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
that doesn't necessary mean she cannot be an "underground" rebel who, rather than throws tantrums and steals a horse to join the army, patiently persuades and plots to make things more to her liking, which can in essence be much different than Acceptable Feminine Goals.
Calling the crowner.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
This needs to be sent back to ykttw to follow the results of the Crowner. How does one do that?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Take the definition of the trope. Copy it into YKTTW. Have it accumulate examples that aren't actresses.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Done.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Locking.
edited 6th Jan '12 10:42:39 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?