Transformers 4

I can provide plenty of evidence of government organizations doing horrible things under the banner of a greater good, but I've deliberately stalled this conversation because I find it humorous how dedicated you are to disprove the realistic plausibility of a work. Anything I offer to you can be dismissed because we don't have anything close to "giant alien robot warrior immigrants with advanced technology help us fend off another evil faction of giant alien robots" to refer to, which really destroys any claims either of us makes about the realism of the scenario.

But simple reference points, Bad CIA, Bad FBI, Bad NSA. There are individuals within the US Government who have instigated or allowed attacks against friend and foe alike, sometimes with good intentions, sometimes without. Some have been caught and removed from power, others remain in power. There was also this little thing where we allied against a powerful country against a common threat, then spent the better part of 50 years taking pot shots at each other once that threat was taken care of.

But I see that kind of attitude everywhere, trying to justify your hatred of a movie/tv show/book by convincing yourself it breaks some sort of artistic "rule" and that your criticism is a legal indictment against the creative powers involved.

Strawman? Please, you've been strawmanning since this started and avoiding specifics like they were cosmic rust. We do, in fact, have situations analogous to the Autobots - the Kurdish peshmerga in the Middle East, the Montagnards in Vietnam, the 442nd Infantry Regiment in WWII, etc. Seriously, name me cases where we have betrayed an actual ally, not just a country with a puppet government we installed whose figurehead leader then got uppity, but people that have been on the ground fighting for us from day 1, and that everyone knows have been doing this. You are deliberately ignoring analogous situations so you can continue to be obtuse about things.

A blanket "the CIA has done morally bad things in the past" doesn't cut it. It's an empty platitude, nothing more.

Okay, Waco, Japanese Internment Camps. That's more evidence of the US itself being willing, right or wrong, to turn against its own citizens.

Your argument, by definition, has no evidence. Because your argument is that nothing like this has happened when there IS closely analogous situations. It's a very clever tactic but the burden of proof lies with you and it falls apart if ANY evidence is presented.

I've also stated that you can't claim just the United States Government as the only thing of note, we are talking about comic book villains appropriating resources and using them illegally. They are closer to a PMC group, but were not acting under presidential orders. Regardless, fiction is about "What If..." with a small foundation of truth. That's all you need.

...I am having fun with this debate.

So you willingly ignore actual close situations in favor of situations that are not analogous. You might have had a point with the Japanese internment camps...if, instead of how it played out in reality, we stuck the 442nd in the camps *after* WWII. Which didn't happen.

I'm done. You are obviously well-practiced in the art of being deliberately obtuse.

Oh, I've been done for a long time in case you haven't noticed. You've dismiss anything I say and offer no evidence in return, an easy way to argue but doesn't prove your point. I've been thinking we cluttered up this thread enough anyway.

Indeed.

So we're in agreement that the last few pages were pointless and that there's no info on the next film's plot.

There are rumors Dwayne Johnson will be joining or replacing Wahlberg in the next movie. But that's about it. I haven't heard anything about the new director that will be taking over.

The Rock? Cool.

Hercules sucked, though.

Like this'll ever happen.

Personally, I enjoyed it. But that's not the topic of this thread.

Oh right, he was Cliffjumper for one episode in Transformers Prime.

So apparently they are trying to expand Transformers into a Shared Universe.

I'm sort of on the fence. On the one hand, it's kind of frustrating that everything has to be a massive franchise. It restricts a story to have to fit in with what is being written by different people.

On the other hand, Transformers is something that actually could work in this format. It's not strictly a comic-book or superhero genre, so that means the stories and characters become more important than introducing a new universe, superhero origin or MacGuffin. Because it is being franchised, they could go the route of the Suicide Squad and make a Villain Episode or Lower-Deck Episode and adapt something like Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers.

edited 27th Mar '15 8:57:49 PM by KJMackley

So apparently the creator of The Walking Dead has joined the writing crew for this Transformers Cinematic Universe thing. Among others...

Hey, if it works it's a moneymaker. If not, though.

At least Transformers has a movie universe set up beforehand, though.

Fuck it; I'm just there for the explosions.

And you're all lying if you say you aren't, too.

I recognize the flaws of the films, but consider the strengths to vastly outweigh them. People like to blame Michael Bay for the current state of Hollywood, but in reality he is just a product of it and manages to turn it into something actually profitable and something that entertains the audience.

It was right about the time the second movie came out when I realized so few people understood the complexity of how movies are made and the necessary elements that need to be in place for a screenplay. A fake spec-script was circulated and many were praising it for having so many popular characters, big action scenes and was, more or less, faithful to the mythology. After reading this highly praised script I was appalled by the complete lack of story and excessive characters with literally nothing to do (All human characters had almost zero impact, in part because it was a Fix Fic where the robots got new shielding that them immune to human weapons).

Whatever flaws the movies may have, I can see an attempt in every film to not only evolve the story and build the mythology, but actively fix some of the flaws of the previous movies. I don't see any of them as being phoned in, but possibly hampered by Executive Meddling pushing them out before they could address and fix certain flaws. Hell, if all of them were kept closer to a 2 hour runtime like the first, I think they'd all be much better received.

Did the ending leave anyone else scratching their heads?

1. The Dinobots have no knowledge of present day Earth. Are very powerful and their forms stick out like a sore thumb. Why did Optimus let them run off with no supervision?

2. The Transformers are still hated/mistrusted and a big battle has torn apart Hong Kong. No one really knows about Attinger being crazy. Optimus is sort of the public face of the Autobots and the most trusted. Shouldn't he stick around to make sure the human governments do not immediately turn on the few remaining autobots?

3. These Autobots have shown they can barely work together with Optimus around. What makes him think they can function together with him gone?

4. For that matter, since when could Optimus engage in interstellar travel under his own power? Doesn't he need a ship to travel faster than light?

And two other things that bugged me:

5. Wasn't it a bit hypocritical to claim for Optimus to claim he was giving the Dinobots their freedom only to then enslave them with threat of death to fight for his cause?

6. Didn't Optimus have a point about how many more Autobots had to die for mankind's mistakes? The Autobots are nearly extinct with currently no way to make more. Optimus already sacrificed the All-Spark and his homeworld for humanity only to have his friends for eons hunted down and killed. Cade gives a speech about having "faith." Prime did have faith and it bit him in the butt. Isn't it about time Optimus started doing what was best for his own people? Say what you will about Megatron, but at least he was fighting to preserve his race in the last film.

If the dinobots are here then the maximals are useless scince there were aleady animal transformers making the maximals not unique.and the maximals are not even organic.

They're in different continuities. The Bay films and the Bumblebee films are for all intents and purposes different universes.

And even if they weren't, I kinda don't understand the issue. The Maximals don't have any additional worth by being the ONLY beast-formers. They're just... another faction.

Yeah but they are supposed to be more evolved.but if beast forms already existed millions of years ago than its not such an upgrade

Some one would say there not from the future but do say that they are from tge future.they Also say they are from the past but they could have traveled to the past and create other maximals. Scince the trabswarp key can make you travel in both space and time. Also the transformers wiki says it could still be canon to the bay movies.

Can't say Age of Extinction was great by any stretch of the imagination. Additions like Mark Wahlberg and Kelsey Grammer both totally made it worth it though—ESPECIALLY the latter.

I have to say that I have been having this weird relationships with the Bay movies. I actually kind of like the first and third movies. I hate the second and hate both this movie and Transformers V. Transformers III is kind of bad but a funny bad. Transformers IV is a boring bad.

The only one I outright disliked was the second one. The third I was mixed on, but that second half made me recommend it though.