Rename, due to massive misuse.: Ascended Meme

It's supposed to be ascended into Canon. When it was in the show, it actually was canon.

Wait. Why wouldn't a show acknowlegding a meme spawned from in a show count as n ascended meme?

I agree with this. The current definition is way to narrow, and will probably lead to misuse. In fact, even the laconic description disagrees with the definition you appear to be forcing onto it.

A Memetic Mutation that appears in the source material it was spawned from.

edited 6th Feb '12 7:46:09 AM by storyyeller

1. Laconics have been wrong a lot of the time.

2. I'm not forcing it. It's already this way. The point of "ascended" is that it got ascended to the show. That would be like saying Ascended Fanon was based on something already in the show.

3. There is a trope broad enough to cover memes based on something in the show, and that's Fandom Nod.

edited 6th Feb '12 10:13:46 AM by DragonQuestZ

Well fanon is usually based on something. Depending on how strict you are, you could rule out close to every single example.

1. That would make something Too Rare To Trope then. 2. That could apply to any trope. 3. It's hypothetical. What matters is how the parameters right now work.

All this requires is that a meme has a strong element that is not from the actual show. "It's over nine THOUSAND!" was a line in the actual show. It doesn't count. Now the appearance for Derpy Hooves was in the show, but her name was strictly from fanon, and that is what was ascended. We can confirm that with Know Your Meme.

Heck, that site could be used to confirm a lot of examples.

Every meme has a strong element that's not from the show: the fan response. Over nine thousand was just an ordinary unremarkable line before it became a meme.

If it were to be repeated and emphasized, the fact that the line is singled out makes it a reference to the meme.

edited 8th Feb '12 11:51:29 AM by storyyeller

Fan response is what makes something a meme. It is not the actual makeup of the meme. That's like saying the customers are the product. The customers make the product successful.

And even then, that should make it not a factor, since it's in every meme, and thus not a deciding factor for if it fits this trope.

Is there going to be a Crowner to change the name to Canonized Meme?

"Now there is an audience reaction nod trope that we don't have, but a lack of a fitting trope doesn't excuse a name that actually seems like that trope."

First you say we don't have it, then you mention Fandom Nod something like 3 times.

I think this is more a Repair Both Articles (and as many of the pages that link to them as possible) issue rather than a full Rename

"First you say we don't have it, then you mention Fandom Nod something like 3 times."

Well when I wrote the OP, I wasn't aware that other trope covered it. So the mentions came after I was.

With that cleared up, I think we should hold off on renaming, at least until some repairs are done. Put simply, I think the misuse lies more with the trope at large rather than just the name. In other words, the idea behind the Ascended Meme trope is something of a grey area, and that's not something that can be fixed with a rename

What's the gray area? If there is something in the meme that wasn't in the show, that is what needs to be put into canon. Is there another part here?

edited 10th Feb '12 1:34:18 AM by DragonQuestZ

I meant between Fandom Nod and Ascended Meme. Fandom Nod is subtler than Ascended Meme, but by how much is hard to pinpoint because both start out very similarly. The work's creators pick up the joke and insert it into the show somehow...

...it's hard to explain, but I'll try... um... Any bronies here? Super Cider Squeezey 6000. The background pony the fans call "Dr. Whooves" was the official contest timekeeper. Bit of a grey area; one editor might put it into Fandom Nod, another editor into Ascended Meme.

The overlap isn't huge or anything, but it's there

Fandom Nod is actually meant to be the Super-Trope. That's why any meme based on the show would be covered under that, but not this trope.

Shouldn't Ascended Meme be the super trope?

No. I just reread Fandom Nod and Ascended Meme more carefully. Ascended Meme is not so much "less subtle" as I previously said, but more specific. Ascended Meme, according to the Fandom Nod description, is a Fandom Nod specifically about a meme

edited 10th Feb '12 2:21:18 AM by TARINunit9

I'm personally not actually seeing any sort of solid definition of "meme" that distinguishes between the two. Is a nickname a meme or not? Is a particular way of drawing a character a meme or not? Is fan emphasis on a catch phrase a meme or not? What is a meme?

As for the suggestion of Canonized Meme, I'd be opposed to it. "Ascended" already means incorporated into the work on this wiki, and differentiating it here would just break the semantic link and possibly be too specific. What happens when a meme is incorporated into an Easter Egg, an Omake, or some other non-canonical piece of work by the story's creators?

edited 27th Feb '12 7:21:40 PM by Kurtulmak

Clocking this.