Occupy Wall Street

Yes, but that would defeat the whole "peaceful" part that was stressed.

Yeah, rioting and vandalism tend to cause protests to lose their teeth these days. It will get them attention, sure, but will ultimately defeat the purpose.

Ace@Why do I feel that our anarchist friend Heathen Savage would promote the vandalizing and rioting?Sorry,I know that anarchist well enough that he would promote it.Besides I thought he would like this thread because its them sticking it to the man.

Joyflower, this topic is about the protest at Wall Street, not about Savage Heathen. If he supports the rioting there he'll come here and say so if he feels like it.

Ace@Hey if they are protesting they need some 60's themes to go with it and some Beetles music as well or any 60's artist they can find.

edited 28th Sep '11 11:09:11 PM by joyflower

Joyflower, this is not a thread about personal attacks against tropers. Take your vendetta elsewhere. And clearly there were ONLY protests in the 60s.

Back on topic, I'm very happy that the name of the scuzball-cop got out. I'm hoping the NYPD is going to recant their statement of his actions being "appropriate."

Don't hide behind your diagnosis. It makes you look like a troll.

edited 28th Sep '11 11:14:24 PM by Sakan4k

I am not trying to personally attack anyone.

Then again I have Aspergers Syndrome and tend not to read the atmosphere around me.

On topic;I think the protestors might try to sing and rewrite some whiny protest songs from the sixties

I wasn't trying to persecute our friend Heathen.I am sorry if my comments before sounded rude.

edited 28th Sep '11 11:29:04 PM by joyflower

Mass unorganized movements work better on the internet than in real life...

Also, a sign that people do care? The movement to restore sanity had a HUGE turn out.

So don't think that people don't care.

edited 29th Sep '11 12:46:09 AM by Thorn14

I didn't say people didn't care. I said the news stations might not care. Though all things considered, this would get them some good ratings, at least at the beginning. And be a good way to put the Republicans on the spot when asked about it. (And again, that this isn't happening is proof the media does not have a liberal bias.)

Or not liberal enough to want to rock the boat.

You know, I have not seen all that much "police brutality." People are talking about the arrest numbers, but not the arrests themselves. From what I've seen the "brutality" mostly comes from people not cooperating with the police (even if they are not necessarily resisting arrest) by going limp or playing up the arrests for attention and the officers having to apply more force to make the arrest. Not saying it is not happening at all, but I think it is blown a bit out of proportion.

Besides, most of these people are taken to the station, fined, released, and back on the street again within a day.

In other news (mini-pun intended), NPR is getting into the action. After an initial article on the 21st there was nothing until the 26th where they explain why they were not covering it. Also on the 26th, they talk about the protests continuing on thier blog. The responces practicaly force them to have a segment on it aired on ''All Things Considered'' (transcript of the 3-1/2 min segment). And yesterday they talked about the use of pepper spray and how the police are looking into it.

There's a Youtube video of a police officer using pepper spray on unarmed, peaceful protesters with no provocation or even reasonable suspicion of any illegal activity.

However, since this is being conducted as an internal investigation, I expect that the officers will join ranks to defend this dirty cop. Let's not pretend for a second that an internal investigation is anything but a sham and an illusory mockery designed to appease the public and protect the department from an external investigation (which we the people desperately need).

The website is now claiming that over 100 police officers are joining forces with the movement by refusing to work. No other sources yet; this seems weird anyway.

That's... actually rather notable, I would think. Someone needs to start snapping cell phone cam pics of this or something, because Lord knows we're not going to get good coverage from standard news outlets and I refuse to watch Michael Moore.

At least he is for the protest, vocal about it, and getting the news coverage. Never really seen him before, so I don't know what he is normaly like.

Like I said, I believe it is happening, just not in most cases. There is another vid of a person shouting that the police officer is "breaking his arm" when, from my perspective, it looks like the officer is just doing an arest of somone on the ground who is struggling.

Possible. One of the interviews with Moore I have seen has him discribing the time when he put police tape around the Wall Street building for a movie. Police started watching him and, when one finaly approched him and he told the officer what he was doing, an officer told him to take all the time he needed because of what the people in the building had done to their pentions.

Now, this is word of mouth from him, but I am willing to take it a face value untill told otherwise.

Fairly relevant reporting by MSNBC, and though I'm always cautious of possible hyperbole from my news sources, especially MSNBC, hyperbole doesn't really factor into this case.

All we've seen in the videos is just that: what was caught on video. That certainly doesn't mean that there weren't other acts of police brutality that were not caught on video, nor does it help us identify the frequency of the brutality in any fashion. We can, however, be absolutely sure that the number of genuine incidents was above zero, which in my opinion automatically throws the legitimacy of all arrests and police actions in response the protest under doubt, at least until more detailed information can be found. Asserting otherwise ultimately serves to delegitimize the cases of those protesters who were subject to brutality, although I'm certain you didn't intend that.

...I'm not really sure if I made the point I intended to or veered off track, but there you have it.

No, you made your point. Guess I just prefer to be an optimist about police practises/activities.

And that link puts quite a dent into my optimisum.

Mhmm, I see what you mean. We're just coming at the situation from different angles, I think. I also prefer to be an optimist when I can, but to be honest, I've always felt like I was too optimistic, so maybe I'm overcompensating with too much cynicism.

I do still believe that the police are, at their core, a fundamentally good institution. I mean, even though there are some bad cops, I don't think most people get into the force for the sake of lording their power over others; they join because they want to serve and protect, and despite the tendency for people to be corrupted by power, I don't think a goal as noble as that one can be driven astray easily. At least, not unless the amount of power is overwhelmingly great, like that of an absolute monarch or dictator.

Anyway, I'm not sure why I'm talking about myself. Sorry, I'll get back on topic.

Re: Protesters needing leadership: I don't really feel that they need leadership, per se, just a well-defined platform of goals and an articulate message coupled with an eloquent and semi-official spokesperson or spokespeople. That's normally something that leadership does, sure, but it can be done just as well by a specific person who doesn't have personal control, as long as they're consistent. With the power of the internet to bring people and resources together, I'm sure there must be at least a few people within that vast pool of creativity and talent that can fill the various niche roles.

Also, slogans. Catchy slogans help too.

edited 29th Sep '11 12:28:00 PM by darksidevoid

Interesting view on the article

The lunch meat officer has two incidents of incorrect use of pepper spray So why is he still on the street? Also he has a history of problems like this.

From Tech Dirt

Forget the main outlets the small and personally operated news outlets are willing to cover this.

edited 29th Sep '11 5:09:44 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"Let's convince the middle class that the people we say are lying to them are lying to them!"

"Alright! Oh wait, they aren't listening to us!"

"Let's do violent stuff! Then they'll pay attention!"

...

And then we shoot them.

I'm not sure what you think you're summarizing, USAF, but it sure as hell is not this protest.

This is fucking bullshit, it was 5,00 at one point. That is significant.

These protesters are, in a word, hopeless.

There is no continuity between the aging, one-foot-in-the-grave organizers of yesteryear and the hopelessly idealistic young ones today. That's why you get burnout. Meanwhile, the establishment has continuity and learns from mistakes.

Also, the problem is so endemic that it's no longer centered on Wall St. It's moved to ginormous international banks.

edited 29th Sep '11 7:06:03 PM by johnnyfog

I was making fun of Baff's suggestion that the protestors should start smashing shit to get media attention.

Mayor Bloomberg made the claim that the protesters are "only" targeting "the bankers who are struggling to make ends meet" and that we shouldn't blame the banks for the banking crisis.

Meanwhile, the protesters protest the banks and bankers continue to have a median income of $88,000.