A new Mary Sue test

The only real problem with tests like this is; for them to work you need to be able to look at your story objectively...and if you can do that, you really don't need the test because you'd see these things without it.

A better use for the test would be to have someone else read your work and put your character through it.

I just find them fun; I usually already have a pretty good idea where my character is going to fall on the spectrum.

I also think the tests can help get you thinking about potential weak areas (either over- or under-developed) in your characters, simply by having to think through all the questions.

edited 16th Jun '12 11:14:33 AM by Nocturna

I think of these as an estimate for "How hard is this going to be to pull off as a well-developed character?"

I just put my dude through it and got a 4. That's pretty good, all things considered. I mean, I suck at characterisation so my protagonist is basically me, as that's the only way I can make him convincing as a real person, so I was expecting a massively high score based on the fact that he's basically an author-avatar of a real life Sue.

Interesting. I put the two leads in two of my most developed stories through.

Avatar OCs: Zyanya, a past Avatar, got a 15-16. Badass Normal Nao got an 11-12. They Fight Pirates.

From my original story The Chosen One/ Magical Girl Warrior Rose got 17-18, while the Mentor Mascot who is really the lost prince cursed to be a rabbit-creature-thing oddly only got 8-9 the first add up. I did a second add up and included the three points for "defeating a group of enemies at once". He never technically defeats large groups of enemies, but his skills as a Barrier Warrior allows him a couple of impressive displays and at one point his barrier proves to be stronger than what is best described as an Expy of Starlight Breaker.

edited 9th Jul '12 9:05:23 AM by MurkyMuse

I ran one of of the more important characters from my own story.

Author Avatars: 2 Woobies: 16. Most of it from one event too. Awesomeness: 4. World Warping: 0. Reactions and Consequences: 0 De Suifiers: -17

A couple I had ones I wasn't sure how to score due the answer being related to context and actually being part of the plot.

Submitted below.

20. Is your character part of a race/species that is not the most common for his or her location? • a. Is your character's race especially rare (less than 1% of the population)? • b. Is your character's race completely unknown in that place, or previously undiscovered?

Race is believed to be mythical by almost everyone, except for the people who killed most of them and forced the rest into hiding.

21. Is your character a hybrid of two races?

If the race itself is a hybrid, does that count? Or do you mean that the character would have to be a were-vampire or something like that?

24. Does your character have a cool weapon?

If it’s inherent to the race, does it count? As in, part of their body?

28. Does your character have a title or cool nickname (not counting any one that is normal to his or her station)?

Yes.

• a. One earned by some feat of great renown?

Yes, but the actions are considered universally negative and so is the title.

30. Does the character have a wide-ranging reputation (not because of his or her station)?

In the story context, yes. Not a good one by any means.

35. Does your character accomplish something that no one has ever accomplished, or that no one has accomplished in ages?

Yes, but that was the point and it was a long, arduous journey to do so.

37. Is your character a werewolf or vampire?

Close.

42. Does your character have animal-like ears, a tail, or other “furry” traits?

Only in context with #37.

45. Does your character have a healing factor or healing powers?

Yes, but on more then one occasion, this has been a very bad thing.

46. Is your character ageless or immortal?

Vastly slower aging, not that it matters to the story either way.

54. Does your character defeat whole groups of dangerous enemies at once?

On a few occasions, yes. In several cases, leads to character barely surviving the encounter.

63. Is your character introduced very dramatically?

Yes, but justified by the plot.

82. If your character is injured, is he or she fine in the next scene?

Sometimes. Tied back to the healing factor question. Becomes a plot point.

When in doubt, it's best to assume the answer is "yes".

Hey would it be alright to leave this here?

( http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19516509/test/test.html )

I made this test on devArt and then after I fixed it up me and my brother came up with a website (mostly my brother)

Pretty much all my characters are coming out in the 0 range. I think this is because I haven't yet established what kind of conflicts they would face yet. There wouldn't really be a villain of sorts; I had imagined it as more of a coming-of-age story in a futuristic setting populated by furries. The main focus is a set of otter triplets raised by an adoptive family in a sort of foster care center-y thing — sort of like an Orphanage of Love but with adoptees instead of orphans.

21. Is your character a hybrid of two races?

If the race itself is a hybrid, does that count? Or do you mean that the character would have to be a were-vampire or something like that?

I believe it doesn't matter whether it's the individual or the entire race. If the race or the character is easily recognisable as a hybrid of two or more races (you can call them Smeerp but your audience goes "oh you mean the angel-unicorns"), it counts.

24. Does your character have a cool weapon?

If it’s inherent to the race, does it count? As in, part of their body?

A cool weapon is a cool weapon. It does not matter where it came from.

28. Does your character have a title or cool nickname (not counting any one that is normal to his or her station)?

Yes.

• a. One earned by some feat of great renown?

Yes, but the actions are considered universally negative and so is the title.

This warrants some thought. Is the title something the audience will surely see as negative too (eh, let's say Alarik the Goatkisser) or is it something that's only negative in the story context (this could be anything, but for instance, Alarik the Horsemind who comes from a culture where horses are considered filthy, but becomes a great horsemaster anyways) or is it something inherently negative but still cool? (Alarik, Slayer of a Thousand Years)

30. Does the character have a wide-ranging reputation (not because of his or her station)?

In the story context, yes. Not a good one by any means.

Again, does that reputation read "unlikeable character-as-person" or "cool villain/antihero"?

35. Does your character accomplish something that no one has ever accomplished, or that no one has accomplished in ages?

Yes, but that was the point and it was a long, arduous journey to do so.

No buts. They accomplish it.

'37. Is your character a werewolf or vampire?

Close.

Close enough to be immediately recognisable as soon as the defining characteristics of the race/condition are known?

42. Does your character have animal-like ears, a tail, or other “furry” traits?

Only in context with #37.

Animal-like features are animal-like features.

45. Does your character have a healing factor or healing powers?

Yes, but on more then one occasion, this has been a very bad thing.

That's sounds like good writing but again, it counts.

46. Is your character ageless or immortal?

Vastly slower aging, not that it matters to the story either way.

It counts if you ever mention or imply it in your story.

54. Does your character defeat whole groups of dangerous enemies at once?

On a few occasions, yes. In several cases, leads to character barely surviving the encounter.

Some realism is always nice, this counts.

63. Is your character introduced very dramatically?

Yes, but justified by the plot.

Dramatic introduction it dramatic introduction.

82. If your character is injured, is he or she fine in the next scene?

Sometimes. Tied back to the healing factor question. Becomes a plot point.

I don't personally like this question. Discontinuity is a sign of bad writing but not very closely tied to Sues. In this case, it's completely justified by story elements so it's not a case of bad writing, so I say it doesn't count.

—-

Don't fear scoring points. In a well-crafted Sue test, a high score merely indicates higher difficulty to pull the character off without alienating the audience. You obviously think about in-universe justifications and such, so you have little to fear. Cool characters are ok, but it's better to be aware of the level of coolness you are giving them.

edited 11th Jul '12 1:48:07 PM by peccantis

Well, part of it is that I've been trained for years to look at questions less as binary choices then as essay format, where the question is: "This happens. what do you do?" or "What does this set of symptoms mean?"

I also hate the whole binary choice thing in general and have been known to annoy people because they're ask me, do you prefer this or that, and my answer will be to pick the invisible third option if the first two seem limiting without purpose. If told there is no third option, I'll ask why not?

Let me rephrase my confusion. Would 21, 24, 37 and 42 all warrant a yes if the character was a werewolf?

As in:

21. Is your character a hybrid of two races?

Wolf and Man= Hybrid=Werewolf? Or does it count as a race in itself? That's my question.

24. Does your character have a cool weapon?

Claws and teeth if you consider those cool. Part of the whole werewolf package.

37. Is your character a werewolf or vampire?

Assume werewolf for sake for argument.

42. Does your character have animal-like ears, a tail, or other “furry” traits?

As a wolf or in between, a werewolf would have said features. As a human, no.

The reputation/title thing is a little bit more challenging as it has a lot to do with POV. The general public would see this character as a very bad person. The reader, knowing things that the in-universe general public wouldn't know are likely to see the character as a bit less of a bad person or perhaps even a person whose actions are perfectly justified.... to the point I had to add something into the plot to keep the reader from getting a little too comfortable with what was going on and even that might not be enough for some people.

And why this concerns me is that I'm working to get as far from Mary sue as I can, thinking more in the territory of anti-hero/anti-villian.

edited 11th Jul '12 4:29:33 PM by hpl

A werewolf is not, by my definition, a "hybrid of two or more races".

42. Does your character have animal-like ears, a tail, or other “furry” traits?

Would this count towards sue points even if they're minor characters? Furthermore, what if people with "furry" traits are a somewhat common occurrence? One of my characters, for instance, has Fox ears and a tail, but she's a relatively minor character, and while the world she's in does contain people with furry traits, she's the only notable character that has them so far.

45. Does your character have a healing factor or healing powers?

46. Is your character ageless or immortal?

Would it still count if the same applies to an entire species?

54. Does your character defeat whole groups of dangerous enemies at once?

What if there are are other powerful characters in the story that can keep up with your character regardless?

63. Is your character introduced very dramatically?

Once again, what if other characters are introduced just as dramatically? Does it still count towards the score.

edited 12th Jul '12 12:36:03 AM by CrimsonFlameKnight

Yes to all, I'd say, given that there can be such a thing as a "Sue species".

Again, people, don't sweat the individual questions too much. A few points doesn't hurt a character, and as someone noted above, the test is no match for a living being anyway - it's not a perfect pass/fail thing, although I would take a bad score on it more seriously then I would with most tests like this.

edited 12th Jul '12 1:45:32 AM by nrjxll

@ HPL

21. Is your character a hybrid of two races?

Wolf and Man= Hybrid=Werewolf? Or does it count as a race in itself? That's my question.

Eh, werecreatures tend to be counted as individual races in themselves.

Unless of course we get something like werecat-werebear.

24. Does your character have a cool weapon?

Claws and teeth if you consider those cool. Part of the whole werewolf package.

Yeah I would count them cool.

42. Does your character have animal-like ears, a tail, or other “furry” traits?

As a wolf or in between, a werewolf would have said features. As a human, no.

This question could use some refinement... I think it's trying to detectkemonomimi characters. I'd suggest the following...

42) Does your character normally have animal-like ears, a tail, or other such animalistic traits in an otherwise mostly human body?

42b) Does your character shapeshift into such a form?

(and probably leave out 42c) Is your character an antropomorphic animal, i.e. mostly animal-like but bipedal, with hands/paws capable of advanced item manipulation, and with speech or telepathy?)

Furry characters I believe are not very connected to Sueism in contrast to kemonomimi, which are to such a degree that cat ears are rather common in parody Sues.

@ Crimson Flame Knight

42. Does your character have animal-like ears, a tail, or other “furry” traits?

Would this count towards sue points even if they're minor characters? Furthermore, what if people with "furry" traits are a somewhat common occurrence? One of my characters, for instance, has Fox ears and a tail, but she's a relatively minor character, and while the world she's in does contain people with furry traits, she's the only notable character that has them so far.

Yes. Yes.

Minor characters however, IMO, can't really be Sues de facto because for the virtue of being minor characters, they cannot take over the plot, bend the world into their advantage/their coolness and such.

But as long as you take these "Sue" tests as more of "how hard it is to pull a character like this off successfully" tests...

45. Does your character have a healing factor or healing powers?

46. Is your character ageless or immortal?

Would it still count if the same applies to an entire species?

Yes it counts.

54. Does your character defeat whole groups of dangerous enemies at once?

What if there are are other powerful characters in the story that can keep up with your character regardless?

It's true that coolness is relative. But a character doesn't need to be the best in everything to be annoying. Not even best in anything.

It counts.

63. Is your character introduced very dramatically?

Once again, what if other characters are introduced just as dramatically? Does it still count towards the score.

It counts.

And a significant number of characters getting dramatic introductions is a thing to handle carefully of course.

edited 12th Jul '12 8:52:36 AM by peccantis

42b) Does your character shapeshift into such a form?

Arguably, there's going to be a scene close to the end where this character and the protagonist have a conversation while this character in a halfway form, both very animalistic and inhuman but capable of guttural, understandable speech. The Protagonist finds it incredibly unnerving, both due to past experience and something akin to the uncanny valley effect. And it's the only time it will happen in the book.

Would "furry traits" count if the entire world is furries?

In general, if you're required to ask, the answer is yes.

Depends on how the test works. (I believe this particular test gave one point for something like that). If it doesn't say anything about that situation however I don't think I would add a point for that. If the whole world has furry characters then it's not like your character is some special snowflake.

Just like it would be silly to add a Sue point for a Harry Potter character who is a witch/wizard.

Usually that's true, but in this case it genuinely might be an exception. Elves may frequently be a Sue species, but if they're the only intelligent species in the story's setting, I seriously doubt that making a character an elf would give them Sue points.

And this case may actually count even less, considering that the question was apparently not targeted at literal furries, but at characters with "cat ears" and stuff like that.

Having seen a number of stories that mix furry and non-furry characters, I'd regard the question as still valid if there are non-furries about regardless of whether it was originally about having cat ears.

edited 15th Jul '12 3:50:29 PM by Night

I ran one of my villains (I'll call him VC) through the universal test. Here's the results:

Is/does your character's name... Involve a noun or verb not usually used as a name, spelled normally or not? Chosen specifically because you thought it had a meaning appropriate for your character?

Is your character described, illustrated, and/or shown as exceptionally beautiful, cute, or handsome?

But nobody ever wants to date him. Plus, this comes with the change I mention below.

Does your character have any of the following? Natural eye coloration not normally found in xir race/species? Unusual feature of any other kind? (one check)

VC sort of... changes due to the gods he's hanging around, and the magic he's been exposed to. From this, he gets golden eyes and wings.

Does your character have a scar or other small "flaw" that is noticed by someone, but does not actually detract from your character's appearance from your point of view?

A scar. It's very relevant to the plot, though.

Does your character become a genetically, scientifically, cybernetically, or magically altered/enhanced being, possibly with new powers?

How many animal companions does your character keep? (one check) Is said animal a wolf, bird of prey, big cat, or mythical creature?

A phoenix. This one might not count, because it's less a companion and more a war tool.

Does your character: Play a musical instrument very well? Is this instrument a guitar, harp, or flute?

A flute, used to control the phoenix.

Does your character fly in a universe where most characters are groundbound?

Do the first plans, strategies, ideas, etc. your character comes up with always (or nearly always) work?

Justified, as VC has spent nearly all of his life coming up with plans. At first, they usually didn't work, but he got better with practice.

Does your character ever single-handedly take out more armed forces (EG, security guards, soldiers) than you can count on one hand using xir mad kickass skills in one go?

VC harnessed the power of two gods and a kick-ass magical blade. It also left drastic effects on VC's mental and physical health.

Does your character alone use a weapon that: Is famous or legendary before the character acquires it? Is magical?

Does your character possess a one-of-a-kind trinket that is magical and/or has some special significance?

Granted, it's not his, he's just... borrowing it.

Is your character some kind of 'chosen one' and/or a major part of a prophecy?

This is not portrayed as a good thing, as VC is simply used as a pawn, as a means to an end based on this.

[Is your character] banished from anywhere?

Has your character otherwise lost: A close friend?

Do you ever poke fun at your character's faults/weaknesses and/or use them as plot devices or gags?

Plot device.

Has your character ever been honestly selfish, petty, lazy, shallow, or pointlessly cruel?

Not all the time, but with character development.

Does your character ever admit to being wrong, even if xe doesn't really mean it?

Didn't mean it.

Has your character ever ignored wrong-doings against xirself and/or others because xe simply didn't want to get into trouble?

Does your character act in odd and/or awkward ways that other people find strange and confusing rather than endearing, and these people aren't called or portrayed as foolish/stupid because of it?

Not odd as in 'That boy is eating lint!', but odd as in 'Why is he being so quiet all of a sudden? Why won't he answer my question?!'

Do you view your characters more like tools than friends/children?

All in all, he gets 21 points. Cool.

edited 15th Jul '12 4:03:02 PM by Collen

Sure. But in this case, apparently there aren't.

edited 15th Jul '12 4:02:52 PM by nrjxll

My problem is, with the OP's "Section 4: World Warping" and "Section 5: Reactions and Consequences" — a lot of that stuff isn't the kind of thing that would crop up in my plot. It'd be more Slice of Life so there wouldn't really be an outright villain or hordes of enemies, nor any real fights. And that's sucking a lot of points away, keeping most of my characters from leaving 0.

And that's a bad thing?