Needs a Rename: Inspector Zenigata

Zenigata is the only one I can identify the origin of—Lupin III, right? I have no idea who the hell Javert or Lestrade are...

Might be because I tend to only read Fantasy. >_>

Fantasy? Or "anime and manga"?

Javert is fairly well known to anyone who had a good English teacher or access to a nice library, which might not be too many people these days. Lestrade is more familiar to people thanks to the Sherlock Holmes movie. Zenigata on the other hand is more obscure, and I'm having trouble thinking of a character like him in any recent English work. Really though, I don't think the Inspector Tropes are that bad.

edited 12th Sep '11 9:32:53 AM by redlar

To be honest, I don't have a clue who Inspector Javert is or what he's from. More on topic, I think that if we're going to rename this, we should rename the whole family.

You don't need to go out of your way to be unpleasant, Worldmaker.

Anyway, honestly, I don't recognize Zenigata while I'm familiar with Lestrade and I've at least passing knowledge of Javert, but since the word 'inspector' is in the title as well I think this one deserves a little slack.

I know who all three detectives are. It doesn't give me a clue what the tropes are and I can never keep these three straight.

I agree with shima.

• Butt Monkey Inspector
• Ineffectual Inspector
• Well Intentioned Extremist Inspector

Would be good names or at least redirects.

edited 12th Sep '11 9:40:38 AM by Raso

That doesn't sum them up. The description for Lestrade just says that he lacks deductive reasoning but is otherwise competent. I assume for the third you mean Javert, so that one works, but the other two don't.

edited 12th Sep '11 9:43:44 AM by Arha

I'd actually question just how good of an English teacher one would have if Javert was covered in class, unless the class in question was on the use of English in works in translation. I'm personally familiar with Javert from French class.

I have a question - beyond the fact that this trope is in opposition to a lawbreaker and Inspector Lestrade is in opposition to a rival sleuth, how different are the tropes? I'm wondering if a merge would be appropriate, under a title like Inspector Second Best or the like.

I didn't know about the other Japanese Zenigata and I do think that's a valid point to be considered. Weather "Inspector Zenigata" would be the best name for a page about him, I don't know. Most of the titles on his Wikipedia page are in un-transliterated, untranslated Japanese. The only ones that are translated have the guy's full name, Zenigata Heiji, in the title.

Inspector Lestrade doesn't have to oppose the Genius Detective. A number of the examples are invaluable in gathering the pieces of the puzzle so the hero can put them together.

If I have it about right they're defined largely by their antagonists, right?

Inspector Javert is after a Wrongfully Accused Protagonist

Inspector Zenigata is after a guilty Protagonist (usually a Lovable Rogue)

Inspector Lestrade is in competition with the protagonist to catch another culprit.

Could we do something with that?

edited 12th Sep '11 3:26:19 PM by Tyoria

If this trope is renamed, then I insist that the others be renamed as well. Never even heard of Javert before this site.

Maybe we can just put "The" at the beginning? I saw this for another trope a while back. I forget what it was, but renaming to The Inspector Zenigata would imply a trope based off a notable character that also serves as a character type.

That sounds awkward.

I like the other two Inspector tropes, so, by process of theme-naming (which I like), I feel we should keep Inspector Zenigata as well.

I'd be okay with that.

I hate putting 'the' at the beginning of trope titles. I think we should just leave them alone unless they're being misused.

Supporting a rename.

Though I'd support a rename for all three.

Seriously, I think it's gotta be all or nothing for these three. I don't care how popular any single one of them are, it's not fair to leave 1 or 2 but change the others.

edited 12th Sep '11 8:54:14 PM by DRCEQ

Pretty sure that according to Fast Eddie, we don't have "policies", we have "guidelines".

No. He can be an ally of the detective.

Not fair? To whom would it be not fair? Who would the offended party be?

Neither popularity nor fairness has nothing to do with it. Obscurity, opacity, and indicativeness are the primary considerations, and the current trope title is high on obscurity and opaqueness, and low on being indicatory of the trope itself. In addition, the character is, as has been pointed out and conceded, hardly as iconic as Inspectors Le Strade and Javert, and thus doesn't even have that excuse to keep his name in place as a trope title.

A statement which applies to "its not being misused".

edited 17th Sep '11 5:30:24 AM by Worldmaker

Anybody up to check for misuse? Being a character-named trope means the first thing to check for is confusion with the actual character. That's what got The Dumbledore, The Umbridge, and The Mario renamed.

edited 17th Sep '11 11:07:41 AM by Stratadrake

Lewho and Jawhat? If we're renaming this trope for being an obtuse name, there's no reason to leave the other ones.

I agree. But one thing at a time. Bringing up Javert and Le Strade is diverting the point.

edited 17th Sep '11 4:23:46 PM by Worldmaker

If you have a problem, then check for misuse. The name is not completely clear, no, but I think it's close enough then if it's not being misused that we should just keep it.

edited 17th Sep '11 4:33:18 PM by Arha

Tell me what the definitions of the three are and what the distinctions are. I'm having a hard time figuring it out from the descriptions. If you do that, I'll do a wik check.