Needs a better name - Character-named trope.: Swiss Messenger

I think this needs to be renamed on the basis of it being a character-named trope. I don't think that the original Swiss Messenger from Sherlock Holmes is such a memorable character that everyone who visits TV Tropes is going to understand that reference. And by itself, the trope name doesn't indicate what the trope is about.

The name came from a challenge taken by the person who launched this trope, Doma Doma. I guess it wasn't meant to be taken too seriously.

What replacement title do you suggest?

I hadn't really thought about that, I was hoping there would be some suggestions by way of Wiki Magic. How about Agent Of Disaster?

(Agent in the sense of "that which brings something about" not in the sense of "spy".)

Is there any missue? You really should prove that a name is broken before you try to fix it. A good alternative is another plus. 'Agent of Disaster' sounds like comic book villain.

Fair enough. Objection withdrawn.

Still though, if you ever think of something less esoteric, feel free to suggest a name change. The Snark Knight was formerly The Daria, for instance.

Bit Character Of Doom?

Tragedy Causing Bit Part? (Custom-titled as "Tragedy-Causing Bit Part")

edited 15th Aug '11 12:10:06 AM by nrjxll

The page has other problems, though. For one thing, is it an objective trope or an audience reaction? That is, is it about a minor character causing disaster by way of For Want Of A Nail, or is about such characters who are hated by the audience? If it's the latter, and the audience hatred is required, this needs to be made YMMV. I think we could make this objective, though, but in that case, the description would need to be rewritten and the examples would need to be reworked.

In any case, the examples could use some cleanup from natter, excessive use of spoiler font, and Walls of Text (in the Sports section).

It's definitely the former. A good example being Uryu from Bleach.

I hesitate to suggest Tragedy Scrappy, because I think it's supposed to be in-universe, insofar as reactions go...

{Please don't make assumptions about how long someone has been around based on their typing. In fact, don't try to use "eh, Newbie" against them at all. —Madrugada}

( All right. I do not espouse an "eh, newbies" mindset at all, far from it, and I apologize if it came across that way. If anything, it was more of a "the newbies, think of the newbies! They are our future!" thing. )

That aside, I'm not at all sure we need to rename this. It's certainly more descriptive than most character named tropes in that it has "messenger" in the title, which is sort of a nice metaphor if you squint at it. I'd say we shouldn't be looking for misuse, but for disuse; if inbounds/wicks are weak, or if most uses of the trope are for actual messengers instead of minor harbringers of tragedy in general, then we may have a serious problem.

If we don't, it may still be justified to rename it based on lack of clarity, but that alone is a weaker argument (obviously).

edited 16th Aug '11 3:12:43 PM by TripleElation

True, it doesn't matter if it's used by women or not. We aren't against young female tropers.

That said: Swiss Messenger found in: 118 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 277 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

So it's getting some use. We just need to figure out for what.

Compared to how common a trope it is, I would say that this is weak use. At the very least you'd expect tons and tons of Trope Decay where people shoehorn their favorite "character causes tragedy" example into it.

That I just used this argument makes me very depressed.

I think this trope is kind of underpeforming considering how old it probably is. I think I remember seeing this one years ago, but that's all the wicks and inbounds it has?

It's still less than 2 years old, believe it or not. The ykttw link is on top of the posts.

edited 16th Aug '11 7:39:59 PM by azul120

I'm fine with the name as-is, but if we honestly do end up changing it, I think Agent Of Disaster is the best option thus far.

Agent Of Doom is pretty good, but it would be even better if the trope were renamed to something that makes it clear that the character is a minor one. That might prevent some Trope Decay of the Nice Job Breaking It, Hero kind.

Minor Character Major Doom?

I like that.

For the trope itself, I don't think there has to be hatred for the character in question. The character just has to drive the story to go downhill through For Want Of A Nail. This doesn't need to be YMMV. There's also nothing in the description that says it has to be a minor character (does it have to be a minor character?).

For a name, Disaster Domino Character, perhaps?

I liked Bit Character Of Doom.

I kind of want the word 'harbinger' to be in the title but I'm too tired to think of anything better than Bit Character Harbinger.

Well, there's "A character plays a small and/or unlikely but crucial role in some horrible development." I suppose that doesn't have to mean it's a minor character, I just got that impression.

More to the point, it means that a character, often of the well-meaning type, inadvertently plays an incidental, yet critical role in a calamitous event.

What about naming it after Nice Job Breaking It, Hero, e.g. Nice Job Breaking It, Bystander? It has the minor character (Bystander), the doom part (Breaking It) and even a slight hint of an audience reaction (Nice Job).