US Bases in Europe

^^

You know what? Get a new frigging handle, because the policies you're talking about would absolutely destroy the Air Force. Half of our budget comes from the reasoning that we're the ones transporting people all over Europe and the rest of the world.

You aren't doing the Air Force any goddamn favors with this xenophobia, our branch mingles with other nations military forces more than any other in the US, closely followed by the Navy. If you want to be kept in a fucking cage so you don't beat up any foreigners, go join the Army. We're the ambassadors of the US military, in a large sense.

edited 7th Aug '11 1:57:11 PM by Barkey

Yes, but the question was US involvement in the war. It's not our proudest moemnt, but it happened and there's no point wallowing over it now.

Now, I see your misstreatment of Vietnam vets, raise you chemical warfare in South Vietnam, bombing all/any targets in Cambodia amd destruction of rice crops all over Indochina. That's the perspective argument for anti-war violence (which, as stated, I don't personally believe in). but really, soldiers returning from Vietnam probably did more than call names and spit at people. Millions died, there's no exact number, because in some areas, anyone who knew how many people lived in that area, died.

@Jethro

I'd love to discuss this in depth, but that's Off-Topic.

Wasn't the Libya thing an Anglo-French operation with intellegence help from Uncle Sam, although history isn't kind to Anglo-French operations in North Africa

Finally, we have nukes and the fourth largest army in the world, what more do you want us to do?

Dutch Lesbian

I was under the impression that with Libya the US sent supplies and its blessings.

Way to make us sound like an Eldritch Horror, Barkey.

I'm not, I think it's a workable idea. I was just making sure that's the kind of thing you have in mind - token foreigners.

My mistake, then.

Because nothing proves the morality of your cause like beating up on amputees.

I wasn't trying to say whether the treatment of Vietnam veterans was justified, merely point out that the same treatment is used today on soldiers who are doing their damnedest to protect civilians in the war zones they're sent to.*

^{I'd also argue that most of the Vietnam soldiers didn't deserve it, because they were drafted and didn't want to be over there any more than the civilians abusing them upon their return wanted them in Vietnam. But that's also somewhat immaterial given the atrocities committed on all sides.}

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

And a large support in non-combat ops, which is critical for modern wars. For example, they lent us a pair of Greyhound transport planes to ease the logistics on the French carrier (which only have Rafale and Super Etendard combat planes as well as Hawkeye radar planes). A way to remind us that we lack some of their capabilities in projection (even if the two countries would be able to send a ground task force to end the war quite quickly if wanted). So, yep, we still need Washington help to fully send our armies outside the continent (damn the A 400 M transport plane project, which is on Valve Time).

edited 7th Aug '11 2:21:04 PM by RufusShinra

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

Wow, this thread has grown so quickly in such a short time.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but I have only one sentence on this subject - Get the fuck out of Kosovo.

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

...unless Signed is short for some military organization, I don't see how my handle relates to this thread in anyway at all...

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I think he made a mistake, and was talking to USAF ^^

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

He's talking to USAF 713.

Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"

The radar installation and missile shield idea in Poland (not even aimed at Russia no less) nearly re-activated the Kaliningrad nukes. That action alone is sufficient to prove nothing has truly changed in this world. Russia is still our enemy.

As I said early in this thread, the Western Euros ruined it for the Eastern ones. I hold more respect for a Pole than a Frenchman, but the Frenchman ruined any possibility of wanting to stick around in Europe to ally with or help anyone.

As I said early in this thread, the Western Euros ruined it for the Eastern ones. I hold more respect for a Pole than a Frenchman, but the Frenchman ruined any possibility of wanting to stick around in Europe to ally with or help anyone.

Why is that? and what us Britons, do you hate us too?

Dutch Lesbian

Britons are not really Europeans, silly.

What?. when did this happen and why wasn;t I sent the memo?

Dutch Lesbian

Britons are Britons. It's always been that way :<

Not aimed at Russia, you kidding me? Russia reacted the way they did, because they are at a huge disadvantage compared to the US, and their nukes are the only thing they have on the bargaining table.

This is pretty much the Cuban missile crisis over again, with Poland replacing Turkey and Kalingrad replacing Cuba. Difference being, Kalingrad is Russian territory, in their home field. The missile shield is just advancing the US sphere of influence closer and closer to Russia. It might come to as a shock to you, but Russians are people too, and they fear the same things, and one thing they fear, is US military action.

@USAF713, Tom and anyone else:

If you're serious, then we'd probably expect you to get out of Diego Garcia as well — it is British Territory after all — and also RAF Fylingdales as well (removing 1/3 of the US Missile Defence System).

And during the Cold War, Britain had a four-minute warning of Nuclear Attack. It was probably an overstatement in The '80s. Britain, and the rest of Western Europe, wouldn't have had anywhere safe from attack, unlike the US.

Western Europe would have been doomed. Then again, the Nazis would have invaded Britain once our money ran out — that is why Lend-Lease happened in the First Place. Britain was out of cash, The British Empire was more-or-less run on a shoestring, and the Americans did not believe we were out of money.

...and World War II, what about World War I then?

Japan: OK then, pull out but in exachange allow the Japanese Government to remove Article 9 from their Constitution.

And according to here — let's see, the French are the 3rd Highest-spending country by GDP on the planet, the British are the 4th, the Japanese are 6th and the Germans 7th. Russia is the 5th largest — the British spend more of Defence than the Russians (and we're overstretched — as we have been forever).

Sorry about the Wall of Text, but I needed to say this, even if it is a little disorganised.

edited 7th Aug '11 3:14:10 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

Were you even listening the whole time that thing was going on? Putin was blabbering about how we're encroaching on Russian soil and going to invade when even the Polish Premier (or President whichever it is) hardly what you'd call an American puppet said the missile shield was to defend against Iranian missiles.

Iranian missiles, as much if not more a threat to Russia itself than any American interest is worthy of re-activating Kaliningrad to attack the US who is building the installation to defend against said missiles that can attack Russia? What kind of crazy Insane Troll Logic does Eurasia run on these days?

Well, considering some of the posts on this thread, it seems like they might be just as paranoid as we are.

Stoppping Iranian missiles agains US in Poland. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the missile shield is in fact a system that launches a conventional missile to intercept the nuclear one. C Ould just as well be used for attacking. And even if not, it's pushing towards the old Russian sphere of influence, and don't pretend it's not about that.

Yeah, "shields" are generally missiles that hit other missiles. It's not really practical to put a big ol' missile-proof dome over Poland.

^^ A missile shield is used to defend from long range/intercontinental missile attack be they conventional warheads, chemical, biological or nuclear warheads.

They have no offensive capabilities. They are literally nothing more than highly advanced surface to air missiles that can swat another missile out of the sky. Technology which has existed in Russia like it has in the US since the 1960s.

The Russians can fuck off about their "old sphere of influence". In Eastern Europe everyone sans Belarus hates their asses for what they did in the Soviet days.

edited 7th Aug '11 3:34:44 PM by MajorTom

Has any country ever used them though? I know they're supposed to be a deterrent, but still...

^ What do you mean? Long range missiles, anti-missile missiles, nuclear missiles?