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[Edited by Fighteer]
Edited by Fighteer on Dec 15th 2022 at 9:55:58 AM
There's lots of non-white Catholics.
edited 18th Sep '14 6:03:33 PM by WarriorEowyn
I thought the twins were already Romani.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
But their actors?
Actually, probably it's dangerous to get too particular about this. We'll end up asking if people are ethnic enough.
Certainly of the four Matt would be the one I'm most comfortable with giving a race lift too, but without having read much of him I'd play it safe. I know of friends, some of which don't even like comics on the whole, who name Daredevil as a brilliant exploration of Catholicism. Race and culture intermix in strange ways, so without more knowledge on Matt I'm not willing to comment.
(Actually, that's a point. I can't help but think that the priority in media representation should be culture not ethnicity. At the end of the day skin is just skin.)
edited 18th Sep '14 5:20:47 PM by Whowho
Writer, Artist, Ignored
Hey you guys know how a lot of DC animated movies have episodes of DC cartoons that involve the stuff that the movie they're packed in with (e.g. "Son of Batman" had episodes of Batman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, and Batman: The Brave and the Bold involving Thalia Al Ghul, Ra's Al Ghul, Damian Wayne, etc.)?
I've had the idea that it might be pretty cool if Marvel tried something like that. Like Guardians of the Galaxy had the episodes of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Avengers Assemble involving the Guardians and The Avengers: Age of Ultron had cartoon episodes that involved Ultron and The Vision and so on.
I don't think we need to get so specific that we expect the actors themselves to be the race or ethnicity they're portraying. As long as they can pass for that race/ethnicity I'm fine. No Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan bullshit.
The same reason Beast Boy doesn't have a West African accent, presumably.
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Cross medium advertising? I like the sound of that.
Heck, include a comic with it why not.
I'm just cautious because I know this very thread has descended into arguments about whether Chloe Bennett was ethnic enough for our tastes.
Personally I think characterisation is probably more important than appearance when it comes to representation. But I'm British, I suspect we have a different approach to ethnicity to, say, the US.
edited 18th Sep '14 5:32:23 PM by Whowho
It's great to toss around all these "it shouldn't be about race" and "x y and z shouldn't have negative implications" but that's kinda not the world we're living in? I mean, yeah, these things shouldn't be happening. We should live in a world where we're past the racial implications of certain media stuff. But we're not. Race is still an absurdly powerful social construct that shapes the way people see other people, and one of the best ways to make this less so is representation. More works that make Black people and Asian people and Native Americans and Hispanic people actual, y'know, people, rather than just a collection of racial traits.
And really, the "it should be about culture not race" thing sounds nice on paper, but it's materially not the problem at hand. No one's complaining that there are too many Americans in American films. No one's complaining that it's awful that an American is better at Asian stuff than Asian people. It's about the skin color, because, again, the fact that judging people based on skin color is shitty does not change the fact that it happens on a grand scale and needs to be combated. People shouldn't get cancer, either, but saying that doesn't stop it happening.
Also, with regards to Daredevil—do Catholics really need representation? Is there a dirth of them in popular culture? Are they at a societal disadvantage? You want more diversity in culture, make Matt Murdock Buddhist or Jewish* or Hindi or Islamic or something—hell, maybe make him an atheist.
edited 18th Sep '14 5:39:00 PM by Wackd
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Writer, Artist, Ignored
Isn't the whole Catholic thing a major part of his identity? I mean, I don't particularly care, Christian is Christian is Christian to me, but wasn't the context for Daredevil a time when being Catholic was sort of a big deal and a negative ie controversy of JFK's election? I mean, it isn't an issue now that requires addressing these days but, isn't it like part of his thing? Wouldn't it fundamentally change the character by making him a devout Buddhist or something?
edited 18th Sep '14 5:51:50 PM by MousaThe14
The Blog The Art
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I'm not that familiar with Matt's character, so I wouldn't know. That said, I am actually Catholic (or at least raised Catholic) so...I don't know, I think that I'd be able to identify specifically with that, depending on how they did it. Not everyone would, of course.
Catholicism is rather different then certain other denominations, though.
Oh God! Natural light!
Not saying that.
Well, okay, a little bit.
I mean, yeah, they may not line up with the rest of the denominations, but I'd hardly call them an oppressed minority.
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
I doubt that Marvel would focus on his Catholicism one way or the other - film and TV at present is cautious about making their characters religious in any real way, and more often than not anyone who's clearly Christian is one of the villains - but if they were, there's absolutely no reason why that would mean Daredevil couldn't be non-white. In particular, there's a huge number of Hispanic Catholics in the United States.
edited 18th Sep '14 6:09:03 PM by WarriorEowyn
Writer, Artist, Ignored
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Well, I won't pretend I'm extremely knowledgeable about this, but I'm pretty sure there used to be a lot of bad blood between American Protestants and American Catholics. I'm sure it's been worse in other places, and I do think it's mostly passed, but I don't really know what goes on in the rest of the country.
Second? I'm afraid I must express my ignorance here; what's older?
edited 18th Sep '14 6:09:40 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!
Writer, Artist, Ignored
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
The Fastest Man Alive
Judaism is explicitly not Christianity, what with the whole "Don't believe Christ is the Messiah'' deal.
Orthodoxy is older than Catholicism.
I mean, a Jew is the inadvertent founder. And they stole a ton of our laws and backstory. So.
edited 18th Sep '14 6:13:53 PM by Wackd
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Writer, Artist, Ignored
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I...don't think most of us see it that way.
You know, I'm pretty sure the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church both sprung from the same schism.
The Fastest Man Alive
Karkat: They did. But Catholicism is the one that heavily changed from the original version.
Love is Love is Love
That is just...staggeringly ignorant. Stick to talking about superhero cartoons.
edited 18th Sep '14 6:17:40 PM by SonOfSharknado
My various fanfics.
Danny's spent the majority of his life in asia; why doesn't he have an accent when he returns to New York?
Personally if I was going to race lift a character, it would be the ones who dealt the least with the topic of race and culture. Interestingly this rules out all four protagonists of the Defenders, as Matt is really catholic, Luke is knowingly a black role model, and Jessica and Danny both have inter racial marriages.
If I was going to do race lifts in the MCU I would make Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch Romani (Which they should be anyway in my eyes) and I'd race lift Stephen Strange and one or both of Hank Pym and Janet. The Inhumans personally I wouldn't want a single white actor in the royal family.