Not what it sounds like: Capital City

The current winning title will make about half of the examples wrong. No one uses the word for places with 2000 people.

The Largest City?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

"Metropolis", huh. Should it be a problem for fictional civilisations?

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

It's a problem for fictional civilizations or historical settings. The word invokes more of a modern idea. It's also broader than the trope and could lead to any huge city being shoehorned in with dozens of "Real Life" examples.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Yes, it doesn't seem to be simply about "the biggest in the game" either. Should we define better first?

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

I think so. Without the three paragraphs of Real Life examples in the definition we have:

I think that much is a trope. It's well defined. It's cohesive. It's the three paragraphs of trying to translate this out of media that confuse things.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

This one's beginning to look a lot like consensus. I guess people are confident The Metropolis won't be confused with Superman's home town. I hope they're right. Still, it's a definite improvement over the current name.

Current standings: +10 (yeas:21 nays:11) 1.91 : 1 for the front-runner, everything else in the red.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

The down side is that it doesn't cover most examples of the trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I don't think it's technically wrong. My dictionary certainly gives a definition that can be stretched to fit. The implications may be a little off, but the basic meaning is: a major city or urban center.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

A lot of these would have a hard time being called urban or cities. They're at best, just the largest town in the setting. They're only a city by virtue of not being a village of a couple dozen people.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Heh, well if "city" is misleading, then every suggestion on the crowner was misleading!

Heck, I don't even know why I'm arguing with you. I've opposed the current leader all along, and would still rather see something else win. I guess I just don't think it's quite that bad. *shrug* :)

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Plot Relevant Hub City is probably the most descriptive of the trope, but that's not very popular. Sometimes I think that people don't read tropes and just vote for terms they find familiar regardless of if they fit the trope or not.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

The current winner will just make misuse worse.

I would say we should just close this and come back to it at a later date.

I think you'd need to get Eddie involved to simply override consensus like that.

I do have a feeling that people may be getting impatient with the current inability to create new TRS threads, and may be rushing to judgment a bit. Upvoting whatever currently has the most votes on various crowners may seem like a shortcut to re-opening TRS.

Still, if we have to go with a bad decision, I'd rather use The Metropolis, which is only misleading, rather than Capital City, which is not only misleading, but actually wrong!

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

They're both misleading and wrong. Swapping one misleading and wrong name for another isn't going to fix things.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

From the American Heritage Dictionary, sense 2: "A city or an urban area regarded as the center of a specific activity: a cultural metropolis.

From the trope definition: "The center of politics, commerce, religion, culture, and crime, you'll find all sorts of subquests and side-plots here..."

I'm still firmly on the side of calling it misleading, and saying that it's likely to cause misuse. I just can't really call it wrong, in all honesty.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Going to have to agree with Shima on this one.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Actually, I think the problem is partially in the description as well:

• In role-playing games, the biggest city in the game. - A good rubric in absence of a Laconic entry

• This is where The Empire or other important political entity makes its headquarters.

I'm sure that we can find multiple counter-examples. (For instance, are either The League or Team Rocket actually HQed in Goldenrod?) (EDIT: Answers to me seem like Indigo Plateau and Mahogany Town respectively.)

• The center of politics, commerce, religion, culture, and crime, you'll find all sorts of subquests and side-plots here...

Another Poke-Related Counter-Example: Sure, like Tokyo, Manhattan gets separated into two cities. Unlike Tokyo, the Poke-Equivalent to those two cities is separated by a deset waste, ergo making two cities, as opposed to one City with the names of two. Heck, both halves are each larger than Poke-Japan's largest city (EDIT: Although, each part is smaller than the sum of the two parts of Poke-Tokyo). (Also, neither is Plasma's main HQ.)

Ergo, this Trope likely needs more than a paint job, it may need actual body work. EDIT: For what it's worth, I'd say the high number of NPCs and SideQuests should be the foundation of the Trope.

One more EDIT: Also not this sentence from paragraph 4: "Berlin, on the other hand, is Germany's biggest city by far and the capital and is not included in the above list while Frankfurt, only the fifth-largest city in Germany, is." (Boldness mine).

Yet, according to the Crowner description, Berlin would count whereas Frankfurt would not, merely because it is "the largest city".

So before we get to re-titling, (which is needed,) let's just see what we are trying to capture here.

edited 24th Sep '11 10:33:06 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Team Rocket isn't really political. Non-political evil are going to have a secret base somewhere. I think that those things are common, but they aren't always there.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

o.O

Poke what? Who? ... Is this even english? What are you talking about? Can anyone explain to me what ANYTHING in this post is saying?

Yeah that part has to go. We pretty much all agree the entire RL segment has to go.

I really hate when people try to use specific examples to make their points under the assumption that people will know what they're talking about. I took a stab at the Team Rocket thing, but no clue what the other half of that rant was.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

That's impenetrable, Donald...

Anyway, I think the point he's trying to make is, the description attempts to explain by listing characteristics common to a Capital City, but many fictional towns would satisfy one or two of those characteristics, making determining which one qualifies as an example in a given game rather fuzzy.

I, too, am of the opinion that we should look at that.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

What we need to do is fix the description first, and come back and deal with the title at a later date.

That sounds like a plan. I'm locking and unhooking the alt names crowner. We'll make a new one once the definition is ironed out.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Thanks. Couldn't come up with non-Pokemon examples for some reason.

Also, didn't see the sister pages Holy City and Merchant City. And after looking at those, I came to a conclusion:

CC Definition 1: Largest City in an RPG. CC Definition 2: Capital of a Political Entity.

As all RPGs with cities in them are going to have a city with the most population and one with the most land area, and as all stable political entities have a Seat of Government (the VAST majority having only one), I have a new name for the Trope as presently written: A City of Chairs.

Which leaves the third paragraph's 1st sentence: "Has an obscene amount of NPCs, sidequests, shops, vendors, and usually minigames as well."

Shops and Vendors are already covered under Merchant City. And, again, NPCs only make for Cannon Fodder in the end. So that leaves Sidequests and Minigames... which I feel is notable enough to Trope.

So I'm thinking that we should focus on the Sidequests and Minigames elements, with a possible side order of the ability to directly go from this city to several varied destinations.

In other words:

• A city with a lot of people = Not Tropable.
• A city that is the center of a nation = Plot Device, not inherently Tropable, could be termed as a non-mystical version of Holy City
• A city with a lot of things the Player Character can do/that connects with a lot of other places (more so than any others) = Tropable.

edited 29th Sep '11 12:57:07 PM by DonaldthePotholer

You have a really weird idea of what People Sit On Chairs means. That phrase means that something has no impact on the story. I'm not sure how something being the largest city in an RPG has no impact on the story.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick