Crimes reported to the priest at Confession

This is my first topic, so I really hope it's not breaking any rules, if it is, I'm very sorry.

Anyway. Should it be illegal for the priest to keep quiet about crimes reported to him during confession, especially if the crime involves children?

At the moment in Ireland, another report on the sexual abuse in the Church has been published, and people are calling for it to be illegal for priests not to tell the police about what they are told. So if a priest is told by someone in the confession box about a case of abuse, the priest MUST go to the gardaí, or else they can be charged with witholding information.

What do you think about this? Personally, I agree that it's withholding information, and it is endangering children if these priests keep these crimes to themself. I think they should go to jail for it. But I've heard the argument that it's a 'sacred part of the Catholic faith', and so this should not come into play. What's your opinion?

edited 21st Jul '11 11:04:41 AM by MumbleMissMumble

Lemme get this straight: In Ireland, whoever uncovers any crime is required by law to become a snitch, or is it child abuse only?

I'm against mandatory snitchin'. People should be able to decide whether to rat on somebody, no matter what they're accused of.

edited 21st Jul '11 11:09:38 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

If you want your felonies absolved, you should confess to the police to begin with.

That said, confidentiality is kind of in a priest's job description.

edited 21st Jul '11 11:06:53 AM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!

I think that sort of law will destroy one of the most effective methods of reforming people who do incredibly bad things but want to change, all in the name of revenge.

I think if the crime is serious enough, the priest should definitely be obligated to go to the police and report it. If a murderer confesses to a murder and then goes on to murder again, the priest should definitely be held responsible because if he went to the police that murder could have been prevented.

I'm not really sure about more minor crimes though. "Father, I shoplifted today" is much less serious than "Father, I murdered my wife today", but it's still a crime.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

It's a difficult one. I can see why the priests wouldn't want to report crimes confessed to them, given that Confession is a sacrament, and that they are absolutely forbidden from telling anyone anything that is confessed to them.

On the other hand, as far as I'm concerned, protecting a criminal's victims is clearly more important than protecting the criminal, at least in cases of murder, molestation and similarly harmful offences to others. In an ideal world, IMO, the priests would not be sworn to secrecy in such instances, and in such instances I would prefer governments and law enforcers to follow the principle that the law of the land trumps religious law. Nevertheless, I'm not sure how reasonable or feasible it is to expect that of priests.

It's not about revenge, though. It's about protecting the vulnerable from dangerous criminals.

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Every version of Law & order has had an episode dedicated to this issue.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

In the long run, if you take away the confidentiality of the priest's position, priests will become treated like everyone else, and criminals will stop confessing serious crimes to them.

I'm not Catholic, so I don't really have a direct stake in this particular debate of theology versus pragmatism, but framing it as 'we need the priests to spill the beans so we can catch the bad guys' strikes me as extremely short-sighted, because it's only going to work for a little while if it happens often enough to matter.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

Only if that exact same requirement is extended to every other person, regardless of their job or position.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Wait, should it be illegal to keep quiet? Any country with the right to remain silent should say no.

Now whether it's right is another thing. I don't know exactly, but if it's in the past and the person confesses and wants to move on past it, then it shouldn't be brought up. After all, things like these are told to people you would trust, and they should prove themselves trustworthy.

Now using Trivialis handle.

THIS.

edited 21st Jul '11 12:02:23 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Hey, question, doesn't freedom of speech also encompass the ability to be quiet too?

edit: Wait, would that even apply in this sort of situation?

edited 21st Jul '11 12:06:50 PM by Ramus

The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.

Some persons do have a mandatory duty to report if there is even the slightest suspicion.

I never thought I'd say I agree with Savage Heathen - but I do. Making it obligatory to report crimes to the police is going too far. It's a matter of conscience and/or professional ethics (e.g. for a doctor).

"Well, it's a lifestyle"

It's the 5th that contains the right to remain silent. And I don't see why priests are "obligated to tell".

edited 21st Jul '11 12:09:11 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.

Yeah, the ability to remain silent should not ever be taken away, otherwise we're heading into Big Brother territory real fast.

The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.

Hmm... difficult topic.

Let me try the logical approach, seeing as the ethical one has failed me. If you mandated that priests turned over criminals for trial, how many criminals do you suppose would come forward to speak to the priest in confessions? So you gain nothing. While a priest who is persuasive enough might persuade a few crooks to come forward the old fashioned way.

...on the other hand, some religious criminals might start to come to confession anyway... as a particular way of handing themselves in. They might still come to talk about it. On the other hand, they might start to freak out, and even get violent towards the person taking the confession. Do we want murdered priests?

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

If's it's murder or abuse or rape they should say something, but minors crimes no. Withholding information is a bullshit policy anyways, especially in nations with freedom of speech.

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No. Agreeing with Savage Heathen on this one; nobody should be required to snitch on anyone else. But especially not priests.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

But should they be required not to report the offences, as is the case at present?

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I agree that they shouldn't be required to report offenses - that just makes it less likely that people will confess to them.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

The right to remain silent versus an obligation to report crimes is a difficult one. I don't pretend to be an expert and I don't pretend to know the solution, but I think that there is a moral obligation for anyone to contact the police if someone has been harmed and/or if there is a serious possibility of someone else being harmed.

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

I'm fairly certain that in the US, failure to report any felony is in itself a crime.

♭What.

That's not what I read it as...

edited 21st Jul '11 12:39:51 PM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.

^^ I don't think that's true. Don't you have to be actively concealing a crime for it to be a criminal offence?

^ It is an absolute obligation that they keep strict confidentiality, under Catholic law.

Regarding the "but then they won't confess" thing, if you're a truly repentent Christian, shouldn't you be prepared to face the legal consequences of your sins?

edited 21st Jul '11 12:40:57 PM by BobbyG

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