The Kosovo Issue

For several months, there have been EU-supervised diplomatic talks between the representatives of Serbia and Kosovo over the issue, though most of the stuff going on there is hidden from the public. It seems that the issue will soon come to a resolve, so I thought that it would be good to post this thread and ask you, tropers, what would be the best solution in the long run?

There are tons of possibilites for Kosovo, the most probable ones being confirmed independence, partition on ethnic lines, a union with Albania or wide autonomy within Serbia.

Both sides have quite strong reasons for their causes:

Why should Kosovo be independent?

• More than 90% of the population is ethnic Albanian.
• The same percent supports the independence.
• Most of the population would not accept Serbian rule by any means.
• There have been minor war crimes comitted by the Serbian Army in 1999, such as massacres and small-scale ethnic cleansing.

And why it shouldn't?

• Granting Kosovo independence would mean breaking Serbia's right to territorial integrity, as well as multiple peace accords.
• The region is broken, unstable and incapable of supporting itself.
• The Kosovo Liberation Army was also guilty of massacres and ethnic cleansing, plus organ harvesting, drug trafficking and terrorism. To top it all, the same people responsible for that make up Kosovo's political and business elite, and still remains a haven for drug, arms and human trafficking, as well as all criminal activities in general.
• Serbs and other minorites in Kosovo would never accept Kosovar rule. Even in case of partition, there still remains the problem of Serbian-populated enclaves.
• Minority rights of Serbs and other minorities are consistently violated, most of the minority population is under constant risk of death, and refugees aren't allowed to return.
• Kosovo is considered to be the heart of the Serbian medieval state and the cradle of higher forms of Serbian culture.
• Priceless Serbian cultural heritage, mostly medieval churches and monasteries, some of which are protected by UNESCO, is systematically destroyed.
• Kosovo is practically an American puppet state, used for strategic purposes and holding Camp Bondsteel, the largest US base in Europe.
• The majority of the population wishes for an union with Albania, which, if realized, will further the Greater Albanian agenda and has the potential of sparking a war including Albania itself, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece.

So, what do you tropers think would be the best solution?

edited 19th Jul '11 6:59:21 PM by MilosStefanovic

I neither back independance nor Kosovo to go back to Serbia (apart from perhaps the northern enclave). Union with Albania makes the best sense. No need to have a whole new nation when the ethnic group is 90% Albanian.

Eh, I don't really know enough about the situation to make an informed opinion on this. I had thought all this was sorted out a long time ago, er wait maybe I'm thinking of the shit that went down in Bosnia.

Anyway, to research this!

edited 19th Jul '11 5:55:13 PM by MarkVonLewis

It seems a bit unfair to me how the international community was all "inviolability of international borders" regarding Bosnia, did not allow Serbian Bosnia to join Serbia - but then allows and sponsors Kosovo to break away from Serbia. It's a double standard. If Kosovo becomes independent, than Bosnian Serbia should join Serbia, IMO. Or, OTOH, neither should happen.

QFT

Let it keep going for a while longer, I applied for a one year tour at Camp Bondsteel with a private security company and I'm waiting on paperwork before I can start.

Be careful Barkey! Don't get raped by a Serbian death squad soldier

No sir, I do the raping in my operations. And the pillaging. And the burning.

But yeah, that's not the sort of work I'd be doing for this job. I'd be doing base security, not going out and providing tactical capability to NATO forces a la Blackwater/XE. I'd probably just sit in a guard tower all day or man a gate and do vehicle searches. For 80k a year untaxed, I'm cool with that.

edited 19th Jul '11 8:01:59 PM by Barkey

@Barkey: 80k a year and you're close to the homeland? think of all the booze and hookers you could buy..and candy.

I'd save it.. Pay off my car, come back to the states, and then have a nice little nest egg.

Why did you have to ruin it with your fiscal responsibility?

What about the Serbian minority there? Sounds kind of like the new state would be hanging them out to dry.

How do you get people to hate each other this badly?!

It's a long story. The A House Divided entry of The Yugoslav Wars explains it guite well.

edited 20th Jul '11 11:09:57 AM by AdeptusAlpharius

To elaborate on how the Albanians even got in Kosovo - During the Great Turkish War (1683 - 1698), between Austria and Turkey, Austrians started a counterattack after the failed siege of Vienna, and ended up in Serbia, with plans to continue sweping down the Balkans, and they were backed by the Serbian population. However, the French took the opportunity to declare war, and Austrian forces in the Balkans had to retreat.

Out of redemption, the Turkish army started exterminating all Serbian population in their way, which led to the 90% Serbs in today's Kosovo, northwestern Macedonia and northeastern Albania (those territories formerly consisting the heartland of the Serbian state) packing their bags and leaving for Austria out of fear in 1690, and got settled in today's Vojvodina and parts of Croatia (though the Serbs in Croatia were forced out of their homes in 1995).

Since the region remained mostly empty, the Turks settled it with Albanians. Since they have traditionally large famies, which remains even today, they managed to create a noticable majority in the population.

Although they were dicks at times, do not put all the blame on the Albanians. It's still our folks who screwed up the most. Removing the autonomous status Kosovo enjoyed was a dick move of Milošević and one could only wonder how things would have turned out if Slobo had wisened up and returned their autonomy while the Albanians were still listening to Rugova. A Hong Kong a Macau level of autonomy could have been a last resort. I remember watching a political duel between Šešelj and Đinđić and Đinđić asked the right questions: Why wasn't there a census in Kosovo? Why didn't anyone in Belgrade had the right idea to close the borders with Albania when the Berisha regime collapsed in 1997? Shit hit the fan when Adem Jashari and his family were KIA. Milošević and his ilk and anyone who had their heads up their asses are to be blamed for how things turned out there.

I'm not blaming it all on the Albanians, far from it. The conflict itself is too complicated and grey that solely one side could be blamed for everything.

Anyway, it's a pity that Rugova is dead. He was much more reasonable, and would have been a respectable leader of Kosovo. I truly respected the man.

edited 20th Jul '11 2:16:12 PM by MilosStefanovic

Wow, way too sounded really biased in the first bit there.

I say give it to the Albanians. We should nt give the Serbian majority such privilige.

I'm not being biased - it's purely a list of reasons for each sides. Determining priorities is purely subjective. I don't think that I have missed any reason for any side - if I have, please correct me.

Also, Serbs are a minority in Kosovo, not a majority.

edited 20th Jul '11 2:34:19 PM by MilosStefanovic

"There have been minor war crimes comitted by the Serbian Army in 1999, such as massacres and small-scale ethnic cleansing" Ok...Ethnic cleansing of any scale is not a minor war crime, it's a major one.

"Most of the population would not accept Serbian rule by any means. " I suppose the reason above caused this.

"Kosovo is practically an American puppet state, used for strategic purposes and holding Camp Bondsteel, the largest US base in Europe". That's definitely YMMV.

"Serbs and other minorites in Kosovo would never accept Kosovar rule. Even in case of partition, there still remains the problem of Serbian-populated enclaves. " The problem is, the majority accepts it, as you said "Most of the population would not accept Serbian rule by any means".

"Minority rights of Serbs and other minorities are consistently violated, most of the minority population is under constant risk of death, and refugees aren't allowed to return. " I researched but haven't found anything (In English) about that, so I don't know what to say.

"The majority of the population wishes for an union with Albania, which, if realized, will further the Greater Albanian agenda and has the potential of sparking a war including Albania itself, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece. " This gives the vibe of the "Domino Theory".

"Granting Kosovo independence would mean breaking Serbia's right to territorial integrity, as well as multiple peace accords. " This was judged by The Supreme Court, as not true (Since they decided Independence was not illegal) we can't do anything about that.

"Priceless Serbian cultural heritage, mostly medieval churches and monasteries, some of which are protected by UNESCO, is systematically destroyed. " That seems like an anti-Islam statement, I mean the fact you're mentioning churches and monasteries, not statues or else.

"Kosovo is considered to be the heart of the Serbian medieval state and the cradle of higher forms of Serbian culture. " Yeah..That definitely stopped The Colonists from taking the land of American Indians.

"The Kosovo Liberation Army was also guilty of massacres and ethnic cleansing, plus organ harvesting, drug trafficking and terrorism. To top it all, the same people responsible for that make up Kosovo's political and business elite, and still remains a haven for drug, arms and human trafficking, as well as all criminal activities in general. " The first good point in all Serbian defense.

"The region is broken, unstable and incapable of supporting itself. " This has never been a problem in history, it seems like every country after independence is like this, if I read the World History right.

Well...Kosovo seems to have a better defense.

edited 26th Sep '11 6:19:01 PM by drdeathray

Kosovo: Israel 2.0

Grant them independence, form a proper UN peacekeeping force (preferably made up of regular Indian troops, not under direct UN command, so their ROE isn't blatantly idiotic), pull American assets in the region, and ensure a stable democratic government that represents all the people of the area.

Ideal solution given the postulate that 90% of the population there does, in fact, support independence and no other compromise that results in Serbian territorial integrity can be reached.

Okay, let's start.

Minor compared to the other fronts of the Yugoslav war - Kosovo was definitely the least bloody when compared to Croatia and Bosnia, and the crimes commited there were no more heinous than the ones commited in most modern conflicts - unfortunately, no war can pass without civilian casualties.

Not really. The history of the conflict is pretty far-reaching and complex, and the blame can't really be put on a single event.

And so is pretty much everything.

Yes, that's true. And that's why a partition would probably be the best solution.

For example.

Yep, you got me on this one.

The Supreme Court judged that it was legal under the authorities given to the Kosovar provisional government by the peacekeeping force, but refused to make a verdict on its legality under international law. In other words, a great example of Rules Lawyering.

Because the Serbian cultural heritage in Kosovo consists mostly of medieval churches and monasteries, and it's mostly them which are being destroyed. It's that simple.

True. But the Indians still have a moral upper ground.

No complaints there.

Point taken, you are right on this one.

edited 27th Sep '11 1:47:31 AM by MilosStefanovic

Where's Tito when you need him, anyway?

I think union with Albania would make most sense, but as a general rule, it seems like the Balkans remain a contested area for the foreseeable future.

Also, it's worth remembering what divides the nationalities in the area; Albanians and Bosniaks are Muslims, Serbians are Orthodox Christian and Croats are Roman Catholic. While the conflict isn't overtly religious, religion remains a divisive identifier between nationalities, and Patriotic Fervor is justified by religious fanaticism at times.

Well, you did not need Tito when EU exist. if all balkan join EU / Schengen, and managed to prosper problem will be reduced. all countries who join have to accept freedom of movement, they even looking for tourist. according to some news, Serbia and Bosnian had return to vacationing on Croatian beach again.

"That seems like an anti-Islam statement,I mean the fact you're mentioning churches and monasteries,not statues or else."

How is that anti-Islamic? What is being destroyed are the hallmarks of a medieval Christian state. A little less ignorance next time, please.